'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

[madmaniacal1]

I have an idea. Work with me here.
Let's hold off on any more "debate" until Ardesia or an admin decide to weigh in on the issue. Regardless of perspective, opinion, or emotion, this issue will only get worse unless those who decide the result can give their input.

[Ryaca]

Lol we have a huge base and we aren't allied with ANY clan on our map. All our allies bases were destroyed by clans currently on our map

Absolutely no allies on our map

Laughable

[MadMikael]

I have no reason to lie.

This is in fact false. You're in jail, you disagree with the decision, and that is a reason.


Now it just feels like u called me a liar?
Just because I'm in jail and I think a GM wich u asked it was ardesia made a mistake doesn't mean I'm the liar. I've been trying keep calm whole day but calling me a liar in this position is not ok. Ardesia told me she checked loggs or whatever it is so how come u telling me "what loggs"?

Sort of, but my main intent was to make a point, not to offend.
My point is, you did not intend to lie, this I believe.
But you did say something untrue.

And this is the problem.
How do we differentiate between 2 accounts, one innocent, one guilty, when they show similar behaviours?
We can't.
So, we look at evidence and decide.
And again, I'm crying out for a better method, because I will tell you right now, 95% of the players I punish will try to get out of it somehow - including lie to me.

I have an idea. Work with me here.
Let's hold off on any more "debate" until Ardesia or an admin decide to weigh in on the issue. Regardless of perspective, opinion, or emotion, this issue will only get worse unless those who decide the result can give their input.

I'd like to not see it get any worse as well, but I don't think we should stop.
I think we should focus on what we do agree on, and work together towards a solution.

As far as the jailing goes - the account owner will need to contact an admin. Any discussion here on that point will not really go anywhere.

But we do all agree:
This rule has a purpose for its existence
The rule is needed in some form
The rule is not perfect
The methods are not 100% - nor can they be, until we can start accurately reading minds.

Now, from the evidence I've seen, it does look like the account in question fits the "profile" of a spam builder.
His logged actions support this idea.

Even if I took him at his word, the evidence still looks the opposite.
And if I took him at his word - you better believe it the next one will make the same attempt.
So really, I'm at a loss.
I have no way I can think of, with the tools at the disposal of the GMs, that something can be done 100%.
Because the fact is, so many will go to great lengths to feign good intent, when they didn't actually.
I've spent so many hours just chasing a single doubt, because I wanted to believe someone was telling me the truth.
I really want a better option here.

Unfortunately, the options I think best are beyond my abilities or clearance level.


EDIT:

Lol we have a huge base and we aren't allied with ANY clan on our map. All our allies bases were destroyed by clans currently on our map

Absolutely no allies on our map

Laughable

Apples and oranges.
You're talking about an established base already.
We're discussing creating a new base on a map.

[quickshot3]

I have no reason to lie.

This is in fact false. You're in jail, you disagree with the decision, and that is a reason.


Now it just feels like u called me a liar?
Just because I'm in jail and I think a GM wich u asked it was ardesia made a mistake doesn't mean I'm the liar. I've been trying keep calm whole day but calling me a liar in this position is not ok. Ardesia told me she checked loggs or whatever it is so how come u telling me "what loggs"?

Sort of, but my main intent was to make a point, not to offend.
My point is, you did not intend to lie, this I believe.
But you did say something untrue.

And this is the problem.
How do we differentiate between 2 accounts, one innocent, one guilty, when they show similar behaviours?
We can't.
So, we look at evidence and decide.
And again, I'm crying out for a better method, because I will tell you right now, 95% of the players I punish will try to get out of it somehow - including lie to me.

I have an idea. Work with me here.
Let's hold off on any more "debate" until Ardesia or an admin decide to weigh in on the issue. Regardless of perspective, opinion, or emotion, this issue will only get worse unless those who decide the result can give their input.

I'd like to not see it get any worse as well, but I don't think we should stop.
I think we should focus on what we do agree on, and work together towards a solution.

As far as the jailing goes - the account owner will need to contact an admin. Any discussion here on that point will not really go anywhere.

But we do all agree:
This rule has a purpose for its existence
The rule is needed in some form
The rule is not perfect
The methods are not 100% - nor can they be, until we can start accurately reading minds.

Now, from the evidence I've seen, it does look like the account in question fits the "profile" of a spam builder.
His logged actions support this idea.

Even if I took him at his word, the evidence still looks the opposite.
And if I took him at his word - you better believe it the next one will make the same attempt.
So really, I'm at a loss.
I have no way I can think of, with the tools at the disposal of the GMs, that something can be done 100%.
Because the fact is, so many will go to great lengths to feign good intent, when they didn't actually.
I've spent so many hours just chasing a single doubt, because I wanted to believe someone was telling me the truth.
I really want a better option here.

Unfortunately, the options I think best are beyond my abilities or clearance level.


EDIT:

Lol we have a huge base and we aren't allied with ANY clan on our map. All our allies bases were destroyed by clans currently on our map

Absolutely no allies on our map

Laughable

Apples and oranges.
You're talking about an established base already.
We're discussing creating a new base on a map.

Should I contact Gandalf on fb? I'm alot easy being reached there. I'm not to good on forum lol I had to ask around how you make a post

And alot easier communication there.
You think Gandalf would be ok with it?

[benbaggen]

I'm my option this was take in to far.this clan clearly tried to establish the buildings.clearly the mod who jailed this acc didn't take the time to fully investagate the situation..on that note mods do realize this is going to start a witch hunt.I hope u guys are ready to b bombarded by claims of "spam" clans.these rules need to b amended.because clearly they were not thought out that well

[benbaggen]

Another thing that really bugs me is y as the duke of AofD is she the one handling this problem.she clearly has some interest in this war....and may b why she handled the situation this way

[MadMikael]

I'm my option this was take in to far.this clan clearly tried to establish the buildings.clearly the mod who jailed this acc didn't take the time to fully investagate the situation..on that note mods do realize this is going to start a witch hunt.I hope u guys are ready to b bombarded by claims of "spam" clans.these rules need to b amended.because clearly they were not thought out that well

You're a little late.
The witch hunt started before this rule was ever in place.
Fact is we get tons of false reports, every day. Have for years.
And yes, we have to look into each and every single one.
Chasing ghosts in the system happens more frequently than it should.

I don't care for your comment too much either.

"clearly the mod..."
Right. Because you know exactly what mods do, and you know all the facts, based on what "you heard".

You say "clearly they were not thought out that well" is completely incorrect, and far from the truth.
This rule was debated for some time in private, and then in public, before implemented.
There are others posting in this very thread that can tell you stories of WHY this rule got added, and WHY it was needed.
No, it's not perfect.
But I don't see you adding any contribution to fixing it either.

Another thing that really bugs me is y as the duke of AofD is she the one handling this problem.she clearly has some interest in this war....and may b why she handled the situation this way

And now, you're getting more slanderous.
It is true, that she WAS the duke - but she has not been for quite some time.
She had to drop the clan to become a GM.
The idea that she has any interest here is rather a strong accusation - now I seriously advise you to stop slandering, and report your "evidence" to an admin by forum PM.
And yes, I used quotes intentionally, as I'd bet that all your evidence stems from rumours you've heard from others.
By the way, bridge for sale, special price, just for you.

[DwarfTank]

Bias is quite blatant in my honest opinion.

bias
noun
noun: bias; plural noun: biases
1.
prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

biased
adjective
unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

Your opinion, yes, but you don't know all the facts.
Nor have you seen all the evidence.

Each of these cases are handled individually, and every piece of evidence considered.
The closest to bias is: looking at trends of spam builders, and considering past histories of players involved.
These are techniques used in just about every form of rule enforcement, including law.
...kind of a way to prevent anarchy.

I would prefer you keep on topic, instead of throwing around vague slanderous remarks.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
So either you can be a part in trying to solve this problem, or you can go on feeling bitter, making vague comments - which will likely not end well for you.

"vague slanderous remarks"

I gave my opinion, wasn't slandering anyone.

After all the forum is the place where ideas and opinions are to be given.

You keep throwing out there how "little you think I know" you haven't a clue how much I know, my IQ stands tall above your's, I'm not the one who knows so little.


P.s. I would really appreciate it, if you would stop threatening me all the time, it's ugly behavior by a GM and shouldn't be allowed, thanks and have a great day.

[benbaggen]

I really don't care if u like it or not its just my option you are free to not read it if u like...I'm just calling it like I see it.

[benbaggen]

Maybe if mods would take the time to fully investigate before just handing out weeks in jail this wouldn't b a problem....but u guys are probibly really busy building useless stuff at spawn