'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by naughty_boy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:11 pm

I was just wondering why quickshot has to spam buildings with a 4K mage :roll:
As i know him , he is not this much stupid to make this risk while he is fighting with that mage too, However as he mentioned about CRUZ , we all know that mak is not duke of CRUZ with his main acc cuz his low lvl acc will be jailed if GM found him he is spamming and as far as Ik about rules, only that account witch break the rules will get jail ! ;)
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by DwarfTank » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:16 pm

MadMikael wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:56 pm
benbaggen wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:49 pm
Rofl last time I checked mods don't get payed..so what wages are u referring to.on top of that when was the last time any mod actually played ft and I'm not talk in sitting at spawn on a alt try in to b sneaky.I'm talking actually played..tried to start a clan from nothing.went and grinded a lvl...the mods now are fast to judge but in fact u have no idea because if it doesn't happen at spawn u have to b told about it
We don't get paid - that was my point.
As for playing, we try to as much as possible, but usually work gets in the way.
Doing the clan thing would actually be exactly what you're protesting against - having an interest.
And sitting at spawn is dumb... right...

You're absolutely right.
All GMs should just go play the game, and not be easily found if needed (like on spawn).
Everyone can just use forum PM from now on.
That's completely doable, let's do it.
DwarfTank30 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:50 pm
NightBaby wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:35 pm
Shots fired. I have an opinion with the facts in this case, but I'll keep it to myself. Maybe next time ;)


Lets just say I see both sides, but being a part of all of it happening, I may seem biased. Also, I see no lies in anything that has been said. All has been true.
Exactly, no lies, all truths, no rules broken either.
A post made, even if deleted right away, still falls under the rules too, you know.
You do know I retired from FT back on the 16th right?


Of course you didn't.
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by blitzcraig » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:18 pm

All of the GMs in this game have been "regular" players. Almost none (maybe 2-3?) of the "regular" players have been GMs... so let's not pretend that players understand being a GM better than GMs understand being a player.

Having said that, GMs are generally not shy about having relatively little experience with FT clan warfare - This is part of the reason that they came in the forum and practically begged for input on the rules... don't complain now if you don't like them unless you suggested reasons why they should be different while they were being developed...

If there's a better way to write or enforce the rules, then SPEAK UP - preferably before the incident (if you can't predict the incident beforehand, then don't get mad at them for not being able to either)

As for saying GMs should be part of normal clan wars, I'll suggest that it's a very bad idea... it would help a bit in some ways, but more importantly, it would likely cause some GMs to not be as easily able to remain fair and impartial... and would make players feel that GMs were unfair even when they aren't
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by MadMikael » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:18 pm

benbaggen wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:01 pm
So mods don't have there own private clan map anymore u can build on..or is it beneath u to chop a tree .maybe u guys should try to make a new clan and build somewhere like everyone else has to.so you can see the struggles that really go on in FT.maybe if you guys had "real world" experience.you wouldn't b so quick to jump to conclusions...and I know how hard it is to find time to play I work a 60 hour a week job....yet I still find time
I do agree with your point. It would be nice if mods knew more the hardships involved.
This is a big part why some of us push for new GMs so much - I doubt you'll find another who's posted so much on that topic as I have.
New GMs will have more current play experience.
But it's a problem in itself.

By definition, GMs are passionate about the game, and love it.
Putting them in a clan situation, they will love their clan - no doubt.
When the two intersect is where problems can arise - as we have all seen from past ex-GMs.

Look at the claims of bias in this thread already - hey wait, you made one yourself.
Imagine if every GM was an active part of a clan - then what would you say?
And not just you.
There are several others who would speak up and claim the same - the GM did something because they had clan bias.
So really, it's a situation best avoided.

The truth is, GMs get so fed up with the clan drama reports every single day, we want no part of it.
Player dies in PvP - opponent autoclicked.
Player built something - they're spamming.
Player joins a clan - oh he hopped.
Player level 0 on a clan map - oh he's a heal blocker.
And that's not even touching the realm of mechanics that WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.

False reports, lots of them. And yet, we have to look, or the real reports get missed.
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by MadMikael » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:19 pm

DwarfTank30 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:16 pm

You do know I retired from FT back on the 16th right?


Of course you didn't.
I'm sorry, I don't follow the drama in the game.
But I would point out that you posting here kinda negates that.
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by DwarfTank » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:11 pm

MadMikael wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:19 pm
DwarfTank30 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:16 pm

You do know I retired from FT back on the 16th right?


Of course you didn't.
I'm sorry, I don't follow the drama in the game.
But I would point out that you posting here kinda negates that.


LOL!!!!


So because I'm no longer playing I can't be on forum? Please show me where that is written?
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by quickshot3 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:21 pm

blitzcraig wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:18 pm
All of the GMs in this game have been "regular" players. Almost none (maybe 2-3?) of the "regular" players have been GMs... so let's not pretend that players understand being a GM better than GMs understand being a player.

Having said that, GMs are generally not shy about having relatively little experience with FT clan warfare - This is part of the reason that they came in the forum and practically begged for input on the rules... don't complain now if you don't like them unless you suggested reasons why they should be different while they were being developed...

If there's a better way to write or enforce the rules, then SPEAK UP - preferably before the incident (if you can't predict the incident beforehand, then don't get mad at them for not being able to either)

As for saying GMs should be part of normal clan wars, I'll suggest that it's a very bad idea... it would help a bit in some ways, but more importantly, it would likely cause some GMs to not be as easily able to remain fair and impartial... and would make players feel that GMs were unfair even when they aren't

Ya I agree with the rules thing but some of the rules needs some improvement.

I honestly still here thinking why in the bloody hell am I in jail it's starting getting me. I did nothing wrong ardesia says I spammed but alot and alot more players says I haven't and they know the rules just fine as ardesia does.

It was not a spam clan and I do not deserve this punishment. Some players that is well known about the rules told me send them screenshots about me and ardesia conversation. They wanted to see what rules I exactly broke. But all they see is she saying I spam but there is no reason for that.

One reason is I don't have any alliance on that clan map.
Does it say in the rules u need have alliance in order to build?

Whole this situation is BS and a GM pretty much ruined my day and not to mention my FT experience for litterly no reason.
So what am I supposed to do now? Be in jail one week for something I don't deserve? just bc a GM says I'm spamming (Wich is her opinion btw) If we go according the rules that is not spamming.

Good to know how much BS there is around
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by blitzcraig » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:43 pm

DT - he never suggested you couldn't be on the forum... he only said that by being on the forum, you haven't really left FT (if I'm misunderstanding you mad, my apologies)

quickshot - "So what am I supposed to do now?" - approach the GM who acted (if you know who it was) with your concerns. If you do not accept his/her response, then message an admin (or a different admin if the first contact was admin) -- they will discuss it amongst the team and investigate it together; both to see if a GM acted incorrectly, and also to see if there's a way to handle the situation better in the future. If the admins do not satisfactorily handle the situation, then (and only then) should you go public with it. And to be clear, it's not about trying to cover up or hide anything, but when this stuff goes so public like this, the GMs get inundated with stuff by players, and it hinders their ability to focus on the issue. Anyway, there are my 2¢, I hope the whole thing works out well for you ;)
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by quickshot3 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:54 pm

blitzcraig wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:43 pm
DT - he never suggested you couldn't be on the forum... he only said that by being on the forum, you haven't really left FT (if I'm misunderstanding you mad, my apologies)

quickshot - "So what am I supposed to do now?" - approach the GM who acted (if you know who it was) with your concerns. If you do not accept his/her response, then message an admin (or a different admin if the first contact was admin) -- they will discuss it amongst the team and investigate it together; both to see if a GM acted incorrectly, and also to see if there's a way to handle the situation better in the future. If the admins do not satisfactorily handle the situation, then (and only then) should you go public with it. And to be clear, it's not about trying to cover up or hide anything, but when this stuff goes so public like this, the GMs get inundated with stuff by players, and it hinders their ability to focus on the issue. Anyway, there are my 2¢, I hope the whole thing works out well for you ;)
I understand that.
But I didn't continue with ardesia because last time I didn't feel justice on a GMs action I got blocked. I only said my opinion and bom I'm blocked. There is some good GMs and there is some minor good. I can't judge they all doing good work but some putting more effort. I'm gonna go and try reach Gandalf. I don't expect much to happen to be honest

The investigation will take longer than my jail time probably. or let's say the admin says I was right few days later. I still was in jail for no reason. All this is just big fat drama that FT already has alot of already doesn't need more.

I wish ardesia actually replied here . it's why I was quiet waiting for her response but guess nothing is happening.

But ya I'll go to an admin as u said what other choice do I have really anyway lol
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Re: 'Settling a Disagreeance on Accusations of Spam Building

Post by ardesia » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:33 am

Rule 14, the one about Building spam, is the result of a long and accurate brainstorming - not only among GMs: there are posts in forum where several players contributed with their opinion.
Spam building had a peak, some months ago, turning so bad a habit to force the staff designing an on-purpose rule, resulting in an actual spamming reduction.
The rule can be not easy to understand, and it is true that there are cases when things are not clear. Say clan wars, and have grey areas.

Now, this is the text of the rule. I am highlighting the parts I believe to be relevant in this case:
  1. Spam Clan: Creating a "spam clan" for the sole purpose of adding more buildings to an area that is done with the intention of annoying other clans is forbidden. The owner of the spam building will be punished as well as the main clan that the owner is affiliated. If the owner of the spam clan cannot be directly linked to a main clan, the main clan that is benefiting from the spam buildings will be punished.
  2. Clan Base: Building inside or near your clan base is allowed. This includes buildings that are outside of your clan's base, but not located within an enemy base. If your clan does not have a base, and you place buildings in a contested area, this may be considered spam. If your clan only places buildings, but does not improve the buildings to green hp, your buildings may be considered spam. If your clan places buildings outside of your clan's established base, and into a contested area or within an enemy's base area, this may be considered spam.
  3. Contested Area: Any area that is outside of an established clan base can be considered a contested area. An area where an active war is taking place can be considered a contested area.
quickshot3's clan has no established base in 3.-3 map. He himself admitted he was building on the purpose of attacking another clan (point 1 of the rule), and his buildings have been placed very close to the other clan ones, while there was space to build elsewhere.
The area has recently been a war zone and IMO it follows under the "contested area" definition (point 3).
One of the buildings was green, this is true, but there were others at the same time, red, unfinished, placed so to be annoying for the other clan (point 1 again).
The intention of building so to disturb the other clan has been declared in this very thread, as well in at least another channel.

Before acting I've analysed all screenshots I've been sent (by at least three players), and game records as well.
It is my opinion that the clan was building only with the intention of being disturbing, an opinion confirmed by quickshot3 himself.

If he has evidences against this opinion, he is welcome producing them and I will evaluate them. I am human, and can be wrong.
If he did appeal admins already, I suggest him providing said evidence to the admin.

There are a few points in this thread I'd like to comment.
quickshot3 wrote: I saw GRUZ (mak228) clan . it had several buildings and walls inside of TFoW.
If you didn't report this to any GM, please do it as soon as possible.
benbaggen wrote: Another thing that really bugs me is y as the duke of AofD is she the one handling this problem.she clearly has some interest in this war....and may b why she handled the situation this way
As MadMikael already answered: yes, I've been duke of AofD. I've been active in clans life for quite a while, I know how clan war works, I know how building bases works. At joining the game staff, I left AofD and any other clan I was having alts in.
You can ask an admin for a check on any character of mine: I have no characters in any clan involved in real gameplay. I have no personal interest in clan wars, I side no clan.
quickshot3 wrote: Some players that is well known about the rules told me send them screenshots about me and ardesia conversation.
This is a point that youngsters (and not only them) often sadly miss. A private conversation on a social network - such as a FaceBook one - is private. Sharing parts of it with others, without the consent of all the involved ones, under certain conditions could be considered a violation of privacy laws.
I am fine with quickshot3 sharing screenshots of our chat with others - there's nothing to hide there.
I am just pointing this out because sharing screenshots of private conversations is never a good idea and could be dangerous.
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