Upcoming changes: Clans - Structures Upkeep

[LordSeth]

I haven't done the math recently but last time I added up what I've spent on this game I had over $1800 in levels gear and skin between several accounts and my solid play mates that earned what I gifted them by putting time in the halo and 7DS towers yet including what I have spent on my archer ogre and mage etc. My point here is I put my real hard earned by my sweat blood and body into these building never did I think it would be taking away by the development team. Agreed with patrapture I am 110℅ against this taxing crap that y'all have came up with. Indeed you are not exactly the ones destroying what we worked for but you are definitely 100% the blame for the ones that will not be saved from demolition from a clan enemy or a common bully taking advantage of what they can. Y'all come up with some good ideas indeed but y'all triple the count with these ideas that truly screws the players in the pocket heart and mind. Why can't y'all use all the time that it takes to accomplish these messed up ideas to just come up with more quest's to proceed the growth in ft and new creatures and more Verity's of gear etc instead of causing stress upon stress for the players. Meaning encourage the players not screw them.... You put the time in making buildings posssable for the game, a few months huh? We players spent years on building and rebuilding and saving and building stronger and saving more and building some more. Hell I may check into the laws on getting refunded what I spent on this game for bribery,fraud,theft or what ever I can come up with to work around the wall built to prevent law suit issues I have the right job if I wanted to do so. Do not take that the wrong way. That's not a threat I'm just sharing my thoughts before actions could take place unlike the developer does.

[kollex]

1. Any rule should affect all game or none. There will be no 'privileged' maps, new or old. Making new clans put efforts in maintenance while allowing old to rest at their laurels - that's what's unfair.

2. Expecting your buildings to survive indefinitely is ... nearsighted at best. They are all temporary, and only supported by active players. Even within current rules they are destructible. Imagine someone buying 15k levels and going on a killing spree. There are and never were any guarantees that clan buildings are forever. Even diamonds aren't.

3. So far it is not very well regulated, allowing such things as 1-person clans, bloated half-dead clans and same few clans using most of space on many maps. What we need is a natural regulator - a rule that won't allow such things to exist. Otherwise the game faces an endless requirement of new clan maps and soon there will be more clan maps than regular ones. Artificial limits only work to a point when someone thinks of the way to circumvent them. Upkeep is a natural measure of real players standing behind their clans. Granted, 3% seems to be too much. Maybe way too much. But it does make a dependency between activity and clan map space being wasted or occupied legitimately. Clan space is NOT there for monuments of past glory. It is for current players to participate in this feature of the game.

4. Please do not underestimate GMs' knowledge of time required to build, unhindered or otherwise. The sole fact that we didn't spend hundreds of hours ourselves building - giving priority to keeping the game working instead - does not mean we don't know how it is. Observation works just as well to be informed.

5. (Consequence of 3). As Arachnia previously said, we welcome any ideas on how to solve the matter. The matter in question now is clans unlimited and unchecked growth, using up more space than they can logically support. Other ideas are always welcome too, just not in this thread.


=====
about currently suggested ideas:
- point system is not much different from an overall total buildings limit. its weakness though is that one can create as many clans as they have members w/o any 2 clans belonging to a single player;
- depreciation seems fine at first glance, but will require a lot of work from out solo developer, and it has no real measure of activity. just log in once every 48 hrs, check if your buildings are damaged and repair if they are, otherwise it could be as much as 10 seconds of 'time invested' to keep up with a bubble clan.

also, when you introduce an idea about making up new limits, like in point system, what is your solution to clans that are over the limit currently? how are we supposed to compensate them for time spent?

thank you

[LordSeth]

1. Any rule should affect all game or none. There will be no 'privileged' maps, new or old. Making new clans put efforts in maintenance while allowing old to rest at their laurels - that's what's unfair.

2. Expecting your buildings to survive indefinitely is ... nearsighted at best. They are all temporary, and only supported by active players. Even within current rules they are destructible. Imagine someone buying 15k levels and going on a killing spree. There are and never were any guarantees that clan buildings are forever. Even diamonds aren't.

3. So far it is not very well regulated, allowing such things as 1-person clans, bloated half-dead clans and same few clans using most of space on many maps. What we need is a natural regulator - a rule that won't allow such things to exist. Otherwise the game faces an endless requirement of new clan maps and soon there will be more clan maps than regular ones. Artificial limits only work to a point when someone thinks of the way to circumvent them. Upkeep is a natural measure of real players standing behind their clans. Granted, 3% seems to be too much. Maybe way too much. But it does make a dependency between activity and clan map space being wasted or occupied legitimately. Clan space is NOT there for monuments of past glory. It is for current players to participate in this feature of the game.

4. Please do not underestimate GMs' knowledge of time required to build, unhindered or otherwise. The sole fact that we didn't spend hundreds of hours ourselves building - giving priority to keeping the game working instead - does not mean we don't know how it is. Observation works just as well to be informed.

5. (Consequence of 3). As Arachnia previously said, we welcome any ideas on how to solve the matter. The matter in question now is clans unlimited and unchecked growth, using up more space than they can logically support. Other ideas are always welcome too, just not in this thread.


=====
about currently suggested ideas:
- point system is not much different from an overall total buildings limit. its weakness though is that one can create as many clans as they have members w/o any 2 clans belonging to a single player;
- depreciation seems fine at first glance, but will require a lot of work from out solo developer, and it has no real measure of activity. just log in once every 48 hrs, check if your buildings are damaged and repair if they are, otherwise it could be as much as 10 seconds of 'time invested' to keep up with a bubble clan.

also, when you introduce an idea about making up new limits, like in point system, what is your solution to clans that are over the limit currently? how are we supposed to compensate them for time spent?

thank you

Then this problem should be salved by more powerful and extra renged saiges and the mighty over powering mages of ft. Not by taxing every clan in ft that already struggled enough to earn what they have.

[naomi]

Let the clan bldg destroyed by opposing clan not by the system(upkeep)...

[RyoHazuki]

If you want to change the rules to allow new clans to build, then fine, do it, but not by taking away our achievements. I see no reason whatsoever why we can't have different rules on different maps especially if it means you're not taking years of work from people.
These new clans that want to build under the current rules, probably won't bother under your new rules because I certainly wouldn't build for the fun of it...what is fun about collecting one or two rocks per minute indefinitely and making planks to put in tower? Nothing....that's what's fun about it. So you think that you can run an experiment to clear the current clan maps out only to find that noone wants to build anymore because A) it's possibly the most boring thing ever and B) their towers are only going to stand for as long as they keep building and C) they won't be able to raise anywhere near enough gold to be able to feel comfortable levelling their buildings to a standard where the enemies won't be able to destroy them. They won't bother and even if they do. They won't trust you not to do something like this in the future, the clan maps will lay bare and lay as a monument to your terrible decision making, all the while, us players who have put our heart and soul into the game and have charactsrs who are hundreds of times lower than they should be because they chose building (and certainly not for the fun of it) over grinding will just feel sour af towards you and with no way of venting that frustration other than to turn it in towards themselves.
You have to think what you're doing because this is going to have real world consequences. You can't just take people's time like that, you can never give it back once you take it.

[Arachnia]

You can't just take people's time like that, you can never give it back once you take it.

I hope this will never happen to FT as it has happened in another RPG-style game that I played a while ago.
After investing quite a lot of time and real money into that game, the company "suddenly" became aware that there was not enough profit from this special app and... CLOSED DOWN THE SERVER.

What do I want to express with this example? There are always changes - we had some in FT world, too.
Players adapted to the new situation and moved forward. "Fall seven times, stand up eight."

But Ryo, you act as if someone has destroyed your entire life. Forgotten Tales is still a game, after all.

[tanis]

I agree with the idea of structure upkeep but not the amount being charged. Most clans will struggle to continue to keep there buildings or base which they have worked so hard and long to build. Down sizing building isn't an option because high lvl players can easily attack those buildings and destroy them. I am lord and duke of HKoT and Kromelg and myself have invested alot of time and effort into our clan and playing this game we both enjoy so much. We both know we are going to have to sell both our big flanking castles because we just can not afford to keep them. We will struggle to keep our 3 other castles and tower as it is. And we cannot afford to downsize those as it will leave them open to attack from high lvl players.
I would suggest a smaller upkeep, limit the amount of castles and towers a clan may have through out the entire game and monitor those clans clans with bases and there active playing. Those that aren't active remove castles and towers to allow new clans to evolve in the game.
This will be an ongoing issue which will need to be worked on.

Tanis Lord of HKoT
Gilthanas Duke of HKoT

[patrapture]

we need to meet halfway somewhere? Just shooting down ideas based ur knowledge of what will work amd what wont work seems petty and if we come with ideas shouldn't we try to dicuss them,my point that im trying only to follow and find one GM opinion about how much work will have to b done i question what about all our work possibky going to waste. Using themes based on work seems to b a slap in the face considering how much work i have already out into game. mybimpression is that kollex u hold fast to this idea no willingness to budge or consider is quite a dissappointment to hear. and yes i wish to come uo with a desigb that doesbt disrupt what ppl have invested into game. the situations in clans at time cause u to go from 10 members to 4 members overnite at times ,forcing clans to operate at high memeber activity seems like the probkem gonna result ib 4 clan naps with maybe 2 or 3 clans that can exist.

[RyoHazuki]

And how do you expect me to behave? You are planning on taking the last 2 years from me. I built those buildings so that my name would live in ft. Nto for you to hold my time for ransom even further than it already has been.
You want to take people's years away like that then you can expect an emotional response.

[RyoHazuki]

You had no intention of listening to our ideas and suggestions did you.