Securing Building Contents...

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Khmer
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Securing Building Contents...

Post by Khmer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:20 pm

A player Bbog, or something like that, asked if I would check to see how many hours he had remaining to join a clan. Not knowing it was a ruse, I did and never gave it another thought. He stole 100+ Mithril ingots then left our clan.

Incredible that clans cannot lock out buildings and protect their wares from potential theft and worse yet, there is no recourse!

HOW IS THIS NOT CONSIDERED THEFT AND WHY IS THIS PLAYER NOT PUNISHED?

The GM said I should not send a clan invite unless I am sure, any 'clan invite' involves some risk, however, what followed is blatant abuse and should NOT be tolerated! The GM then told me that after reviewing the logs, that the player joined MAX, took all the Mithril ingots, then immediately left.

Therefore, this players intentions and the subsequent theft are not only obvious but are documented too... This player should be disciplined and placed on the scammers list A.S.A.P!

This behavior is ruining the FT clan experience :?
Last edited by Khmer on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blitzcraig
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by blitzcraig » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:42 pm

I believe that type of theft is considered clan warfare, like using a spy... not abusing game mechanics, and thereby does not violate rules.
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Khmer
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by Khmer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:10 pm

blitzcraig wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:42 pm
I believe that type of theft is considered clan warfare, like using a spy... not abusing game mechanics, and thereby does not violate rules.
DaHobbit wrote back in 2017...

This announcement is made for the purpose of warning scammers, cheaters, thieves - if you scam another player, you WILL be punished. Repeat scams may result in ALL of your accounts being jailed - PERMANENTLY. There are no excuses for scamming another player, and I will be sure to find you and punish you.

and Bee, however you wish to spin it... it's a

SCAM

a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
"an insurance scam"
synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by blitzcraig » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:31 pm

you're right that it's a type of scam - I'm just telling you how it has been looked at in the past.... it's like a clan breaking a truce with another clan - lying? yes. scamming? kind of. against the rules? no. ... at least it hadn't been looked at that way before. I would think it's worth you getting a response from the GM team about it because rules and interpretations do change over time; but again, I was just saying how this issue has been dealt with over the last several years.

And for the record, I'm not spinning anything, and I don't appreciate the accusation.
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MadMikael
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by MadMikael » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:45 pm

If you give another player your password, and they use your account and do bad things, for a stolen account in this manner, often times, the account is permanently jailed as being stolen.

So.
You gave access to your clan buildings to someone you didn't know, and they abused it.
Perhaps, we should confiscate your clan buildings?


While that above statement is not really serious, this one is.
I agree with what blitzcraig says above, and I see no reason why we should get involved, or change the rules on it.
Infiltration is part of the clan game. So is sabotage. These are features, not bugs or abuse IMO.
Otherwise, if we decide to change this rule, perhaps, any clanned account that has alts in another clan should be considered abuse and be jailed instantly. No more spies this way, but, it also hurts those as friends.

And no, attempting to differentiate is not a good idea. It ends up in a lot of false accusations, extra work, and perhaps, innocents jailed.
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Khmer
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by Khmer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 pm

MadMikael wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:45 pm
If you give another player your password, and they use your account and do bad things, for a stolen account in this manner, often times, the account is permanently jailed as being stolen.

So.
You gave access to your clan buildings to someone you didn't know, and they abused it.
Perhaps, we should confiscate your clan buildings?


While that above statement is not really serious, this one is.
I agree with what blitzcraig says above, and I see no reason why we should get involved, or change the rules on it.
Infiltration is part of the clan game. So is sabotage. These are features, not bugs or abuse IMO.
Otherwise, if we decide to change this rule, perhaps, any clanned account that has alts in another clan should be considered abuse and be jailed instantly. No more spies this way, but, it also hurts those as friends.

And no, attempting to differentiate is not a good idea. It ends up in a lot of false accusations, extra work, and perhaps, innocents jailed.
'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'
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MadMikael
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by MadMikael » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:17 pm

Khmer wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 pm
'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'
And this is where we disagree.
You see a problem, whereas I do not.
This has long been a feature of FT. It is not new.

Is this theft? Yes.
Does this make me angry? Yes.

However, unless it's changed from the mechanics point of view as you and many others suggest, there are no viable options in my opinion.
So, in this, we are both equally powerless. All we can do is raise our voices and hope the programmer will consider it.
It is likely not an easy fix. Typically, the easiest things in FT are far more complicated at the coding level.

But yes.
Either make clan buildings lockable, or make it so certain buildings can only be accessed by certain ranks.
Adding new ranks may be nice as well.
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Khmer
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by Khmer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

MadMikael wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:17 pm
Khmer wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 pm
'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'
And this is where we disagree.
You see a problem, whereas I do not.
This has long been a feature of FT. It is not new.

Is this theft? Yes.
Does this make me angry? Yes.

However, unless it's changed from the mechanics point of view as you and many others suggest, there are no viable options in my opinion.
So, in this, we are both equally powerless. All we can do is raise our voices and hope the programmer will consider it.
It is likely not an easy fix. Typically, the easiest things in FT are far more complicated at the coding level.

But yes.
Either make clan buildings lockable, or make it so certain buildings can only be accessed by certain ranks.
Adding new ranks may be nice as well.

Now that's very well said, Khmer's handler would be proud :)
timewarp
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by timewarp » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:07 pm

I made a post a good while back that there should be a building that the duke can designate is locked to all except for duke or duke and lords......that way could keep some of the most valuable clan things safe....idk where it's at and don't feel like looking for it but this is probly the only way could keep this kind of situation preventable but still possible...but I have to agree with blitz and mad on this...tho I do think there should be at least 1 building lockable by dukes.....think about it: didn't the knights templar lock away their holiest of holy treasures(holy grail)? As of how it is now the only way to gain new players in clan is have nothing valuable at all at base and or rely purely on trust
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Re: Securing Building Contents...

Post by SellSword » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:59 pm

I'm not into clans, don't know a whole lot about them, and care rather little, but I know that many clans put no more than a few seconds' thought into who they invite. I receive invites all the time, but have never actually had a player talk to me about the clan first.

Now, I'm not saying all clans do that, and maybe it's the same guy inviting me all the time for all I know. Usually by the time I'm done discarding the message whoever invited me is long gone anyhow, so maybe those players don't care what happens and their [whatever superior officer in the clan] should talk with them.

For those of you that are into clans, I'm glad you enjoy it, and I'm not bashing it just because it's not my cup of tea. Just put a minimum amount of thought into things at least...

Doesn't resolve the post issue, I realize. Also, no, I'm not saying someone didn't think things through as I did actually read the post.
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