ALL CURRENT IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS!

[saboteur]

u should not forget about recovery time for mage. he can store dmg and have a big burst, but if u compare dmg over 1 hour, all other classes win. in grining u are stronger with an archer.

Doesnt appear to be the case.. It takes 15 tics for me to kill one archer. 7 to 8 with the lvl 30 skill active. A mage wipes.out 10 to 20 tgts in about the same time. Recast seems to be about.one minute or so for.the.green cloud spell to recharge. I kill maybe 5 to 6 tgts in one minute. A mage kills 10 to 20 in 6 seconds. Waits a minute and repeats. Ive been on the archer map/lord whatshisnuts and have seen this often the past few days. Im in the best gear using the best bow. Str 46+ arm 34 dex 46+. Hitting the lvl 30 skill as often as its up. No way a lvl 35 mage (my lvl ) is killing the same as I am over time. Ive seen it too much in game on this map over the past 2 days.

[blitzcraig]

Mathematically, others will beat mages at grinding over time (except at low levels when you can't kill archers) obviously, this assumes mages are not using pots....if they are, I suspect that alone is enough to put mages ahead. Additionally, in practice (remember I started with Math, not reality) mages don't really lose any grinding time to walk around spawning enemies, don't lose time standing still to heal (since they attack standing still while healing) and don't lose much time walking to shop to sell drops (especially if close like when at archer field) all in all, mages are still a little better grinding than others. I haven't done math on really high levels, as my archer is just level 71it's posSible this changes around a hundred or so...I don't know. PVP is still an issue, as mages are the only class with a realistic chance... I'm hoping eventually they will find a closer balance there, they've been doing a really good job progressing the game so far. As a side note, if you're focusing on grinding, you've wasted 20 points in Dex which would better serve you in str. Also, there is some level 100 gear, I'm hoping for a bow soon (I think maybe they're leaving the gap there to be filled with skills instead?) See ya in game

[saboteur]

Mathematically, others will beat mages at grinding over time (except at low levels when you can't kill archers)  obviously, this assumes mages are not using pots....if they are, I suspect that alone is enough to put mages ahead.  Additionally, in practice (remember I started with Math, not reality) mages don't really lose any grinding time to walk around spawning enemies, don't lose time standing still to heal (since they attack standing still while healing) and don't lose much time walking to shop to sell drops (especially if close like when at archer field)  all in all, mages are still a little better grinding than others.  I haven't done math on really high levels, as my archer is just level 71it's posSible this changes around a hundred or so...I don't know.  PVP is still an issue, as mages are the only class with a realistic chance... I'm hoping eventually they will find a closer balance there, they've been doing a really good job progressing the game so far.  As a side note, if you're focusing on grinding, you've wasted 20 points in Dex which would better serve you in str. Also, there is some level 100 gear, I'm hoping for a bow soon (I think maybe they're leaving the gap there to be filled with skills instead?)  See ya in game

So mana pots for mages have unbslanced the game ripping mages ahead of any other class (a).

And by your assessment alone mages are more powerful in pvp (b). Further reinforcing that rebalancing needs to happen because mages are more powerful then any other class in game. Like I said Ive been on the archers map the past 2 to 3 days. Ive watched numerous mages wipe out mobs repeatedl, instantly, spawn like 10 to 20 at a time, use the green flow spell, and wipe mobs. Walk around a few blocks, spawn 10-20 more, rinse and repeat. And high lvl archers have been there too. No one archer can one shot an archer. Mages can one shot multiple archers. So again as previously stated. Please revamp combat its broken. Archers need aoes or higher (much higher) single target dps.

On a side note Im building dex to 70 to make sure at lvl 100 I can hit anything. Once its at 70 Ill be taking armor to 70 and str to 100+.once dex and armpr are at 70 main focus will be str. Now...thats still hoping combat is revamped. If it isnt I'll prolly play Bards Tale more. Notice more mages are rolled then any other class. That is unique to this game because its unbalanced. Sit on archers map a day or 2 for a few hours. Like I have. And you will see exactly what Im talking about. And Im sure if there is a log of combat generated and it were parsed by dmg by class, mages would be well beyong any other class. Anyway this is my suggestion/idea. Some others agree. Hopefully it changes in a future update.

[Secular]

I completely agree Archers/Swordsman/Dwarfs/Ogres all need a higher initial single-target DPS, because it takes melee classes 3-5 minutes to even kill a mage (or any character) with high armor, whereas a mage can just click as fast as he can and execute massive damage in a short period of time killing their target within 30-80 seconds.

The new class abilities somewhat make up for their downfall in PvP, but it doesn't entirely help.

My solutions are:
A: Nerf the Mage's damage
B: Nerf the armor formula, it becomes very unrealistic at higher levels, meaning, the damage increase from STR (and even mana) cannot keep up with the health increase from pumping armor.

[blitzcraig]

I thought about that too secular, my fear with that (nerfing mage damage) would be setting the game back to when there was no pvp killing at all... Players had too many HP to ever kill them.... I was thinking about changing mage attack rate to match that of others, but same danger there. One possibility I thought of was automatically slowing opponent walking speed when hit in pvp so can't run away (obviously lots of specifics to work out) also, I think for sword/dwarf/ogre the attack button should auto walk to enemy (at least targeted pvp) I've designed games before, so I appreciate how difficult it is to find balance while maintaining uniqueness of class. Best case scenario may be continuing to improve non-mages so they are considerably better at grinding than mages, or increasing exp needed pet level for mages (does not address buying levels or already high level mages) anyway, hopefully we'll get some more good ideas implemented...like the skills already put into place (thigh I still think level 60 archer skill virtually worthless) ... Let's keep this going (even if thread is moved or renamed) and help encourage creator to continue work. (and thank the mods even though I know there are some complaints about their efforts sometimes

[Azok]

I think the dwarf class could use some grinding based skills like the archers double speed or ogres double damage. Just give us something to wait for to train easier and faster. All first skills for players are passive, and second skills seem to deal with larger amounts of damage at once. So, give the dwarf a skill likeWide swing or deathly blow. Taking around 30% hp of target like other classes. Thanks.

[Leone]

ok - well here's what I think...

There most certainly is a class imbalance.  It goes without saying that the mage is the most powerful character, then the archer and then the others.  Look around the game at the most powerful/highest level characters (and the Mods)to  confirm this.

This thread runs a danger of having a pop at mages and archers, btw.  I hope it doesn't as it's a great idea.

Anyway - this issue seems to be the choiceof weapons.

Mage - ranged and area effect
Archer - ranged
Dwarf /ogre/swordsman - hand to hand

Using ranged weapons gives you an advantage over using hand to hand weapons. Furthermore, many people have said before that the area effect attack gives a huge advantage and I agree.  The ability to kill many opponents at once means that mages can build their xp incredibly quickly.

So - how to address this.  Well - one option (as other have said in the past)would be to issue dwarves, ogres and swordsmen with ranged weapons (throwing axes?) and/or grenades (area effect).  The archer could use an explosive arrow for area effect.

This would work well I guess but then we may run the risk of having no difference or individuality between the characters.  Perhaps the individuality would come from the specific skills that the different characters have?

[Leone]

I'm going to argue against myself here...

The trouble with my previous post is that there would be a danger of mages being the weakest character.

Throwing axes and grenades would have to be purchasable from shops in a similar way to mana potions.

Grenades (of course ) kill indiscriminately - in other words both opponents and other players would be caught in the blast. They would therefore have to be used extremely carefully.

[blitzcraig]

Compbatant, I'm excited to see you're interested in our ideas! Leone, i agree exactly with your assessment. Like you pointed out, I'd be hesitant of giving everybody AOE attacks for fear of losing individuality (although if it were a skill it would be different, but still pretty similar IMO) I'll throw in a few of my ideas and see where this thread goes. (btw I also agree we need to be careful not to have all our ideas be nerfing the mages ; )

1 - Leone's suggestion of adding ranged/AOE attacks for other classes

2- slowing down mages rate of attack(I know, I know I said don't just nerf mages... Just a quick, simple solution here)

3- don't let green flow bypass armor (see above parenthetical comment) ... These two things create imbalances in pvp and grinding

4- don't allow mana to regenerate while walking...or do allow life to regenerate while walking/attacking - this is the last of my "mage nerfing" ideas, and allowing life to Regen all the time is dangerous..may create invincible characters pretty easily

5 - allow non-mages to skip 20 second cooldown of skills if take a life potion (or mana portion? )

6 -add armor piercing to all level 60 skills (without getting rid of what they already do)

7- have players "auto-follow" while attacking (probably a lot of work to implement, but it would help the hand-to-hand characters a lot to not constantly move, attack, move, attack)

8- all classes same speed

I'll stop here for now to see if the thread gains any traction, I'll be happy to add more ideas or better explain why I think these could help (and the dangers in each) if anybody shows interest in them... If you add your own ideas, please continue with the numbering to keep it easy to understand (next idea is #9 etc)

[Azok]

Congratulations Blitz on a sticky.
So this is obviosly between mages and others...
Mages-Slow attack speed/lower hp formula/No vitals in pvp
As for vital bravelets... Ive worked rather hard for a level 100 account in which i mainly use for clan warfare. Well its kind of a let down being killed by much lower level mages. Also attacking a maybe level 60 and they use a vital and i cant kill them!!
Ogres/Dwarfs-+1 walk speed
New skills/enchanted weapons-Slowing/stunning abilities.
Just a few of many ideas... Thanks, -Azok