New account...cool or not?

[blitzcraig]

in fact, while we're talKing math here, (I've given no real thought to this... new idea to me) what do you think of damage = mana (+stats from gear like others) but spell cost is decreased significantly?

[Mike]

It's not what we think here. It's what is right and wrong with the game. And while we can see no significant updates why don't you work out better stat formulas that are in equal. Come Tele me and fight me on a lvl 350 mage. I'll meet u silverwood shop now

[joeylamcy]

I add some mathematical consideration to the mage vs archer debate.

The power of most of the classes go about linearly with level: you get +2 points with each lvl up, you can add a part of them to your strength. Then you can make proportionally more damage.

The only exception is mage class. Largest part of the lvl-up points go into mana. Increasing mana increases the number of spells you can cast before exhausting, and also increases the damage of a single spell. Thus damage goes with level squared.

Equipment upgrade and dex subtraction complicates this picture somewhat, but the basic idea is this. Linear vs. squared growth. It means that there MUST be a lvl above which mage overpowers any other class, even archers. Maybe this lvl is 100, maybe 300. But according to the experiences of Mike and to the tests of Blitzcraig, this level is below 400.

Then further lvl increase increases the gap between mage and other classes dramatically.

actually not. At higher levels u shouldn't use number of spells casted, but rate of casting spells, coz their mana is not likely to run out. At high levels, a mage need to cast as much spells as possible before u die. So counting tptal number of spells is not accurate

[blitzcraig]

I see what you're saying... but you still would count total number of spells needed to kill, divided by rate of cast (6/second max) to get TIME TO KILL -- compare that with TIME TO KILL of other player (including most helpful skills) and you will see mage at high level is MUCH faster than any other... and as you point out, they are not going to run out of mana in that number of casts (even if it wasn't regenerating at the time) - I'm changing this to another thread since we kinda hijacked this one...sorry about that )

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3505

[blitzcraig]

I would like to test with you... but i don't have a level 350 mage. I tried to see if admin was available to lend me one, but it seems nobody is on right now, sorry

[saab]

actually not. At higher levels u shouldn't use number of spells casted, but rate of casting spells, coz their mana is not likely to run out. At high levels, a mage need to cast as much spells as possible before u die. So counting tptal number of spells is not accurate

The question is not whether you run out of mana during the combat or not, but whether you can cast spells quicker than your mana regeneration rate or not. You are in the quadratic regime as long as you consume mana faster than it regenerates. Afterwards, you enter in a linear regime, because you cannot deplete your mana anymore, due to the 6 spell/s limit. Calculating with green flow spell, you consume 30 mana/s, while full regeneration takes about 200s. That is, the transition into the linear regime is at 6000 mana points, pretty high.

My calculations correspond to the long-term average damage - time scales longer than the full mana regeneration. PvP combats typically take shorter times. Also, it relies on many assumptions, so it is only a rough approximation.

EDIT: Probably we should continue the discussion on the dedicated topic Blitzcraig opened.

[SoulSilver]

Agree with Mike here...And dont forget Green Flow Spell is not the weapon from Mages...Mages got Spells and Staff..That means + 40 damage by lvl 100 staff...Not much but if for example need 10 casts to kill someone staff adds 400 damage to Normal Spell attack...A little bit Overpowered if ask me....

[SoulSilver]

One Example here: ( sry if some mistakes in there )

Mage lvl 200/Archer lvl 200
Mage example stats:
Without equip: 600 Mana
0 str
100 arm
100 dex
Archer example stats:
Without equip: 400str
200arm
200dex
Mage damage per cast 600 / Archers 400 per arrow....200 Basic Damage more....Thats 50% more o.O

[blitzcraig]

sorry, soulsilver, what is this example of exactly, I think I don't quite understand... if it's example of current rules, it should be this: mage 700 mana, 100 armor (don't need Dex) then damage would be 1800 per cast (minus enemy Dex) = 1600 damage per cast (times 6 casts per second) = 9600 per second! ... yikes....