a hidden city for outlaws

[Asmodeous]

Yeah I get that it is a nice roleplay punishment. But the line blurs to the point people want to smash them with a hammer constantly. Making everything incredibly difficult and some even going as far as to label them as bad evil people etc.

The line on the outlaws topic gets crossed a lot imo. Some even demanding lowet selling rates of items. Some suggesting that a few shops dont even deal with them at all. Thats incredibly stupid imo.

For those who are literally abusing spawns. Using them to kill. Or boarder abuse, sure its a fitting punishment. now anyone can kill them for their crimes. Your also right, that theres far more important things that need to be fixed first.

But imho. People (pretty much everyone) need to relook at the outlaw mechanic and what its meant to be. Not what they want to perceive it as. Some people are pvp happy. You know them already. Others are abusers. We know who they are too.

My point is, is hopefully people will stop unknowingly cross the two over and label all of them as bad evil people etc. That need some unwarrented magical hammer of rules, additional annoying and pointless mechanics added. Just because "outlaw".

[blitzcraig]

as usual, I think you and I "mostly" agree here lol - - the lines are blurred a lot. If pvp outside clans was truly not wanted, there wouldn't be all these outlaw rules to start with... compbatant wouldn't simply make it unavailable. So treating these players like bad people is kinda crazy to me.... but some things fit. higher drop rates, no imo... shops that won't deal with outlaws, I actually kind of like (or at least increased prices) it fits with the role they have chosen
However, in game (role-playing here) these are "bad" people... they go around attacking others. If I wasn't a GM I would go around hunting down every one I had a shot at killing (that's the role I would play)

[Acnologia]

i could make account outlaw to come kill them on city LoL

[blitzcraig]

nice ... anyway, you brought up a great, great point a couple posts ago... the player who turns outlaw by helping his friend /clanmate who is attacked by another player...
>> I'll say this again (and again and again and again until I hear a better option) a player should be made outlaw immediately upon attacking another (non outlawed) player unless both are in clan!!! This would solve SO MUCH!!!!
(doesn't necessarily need to be an entire week unless they kill, but at least 2-3 days imo)

oh, and no outlaw for attacking friend... that way we can still "fight for fun, test" etc when we want... and no going outlaw on clan maps or coloseum of course

[Acnologia]

nice ... anyway, you brought up a great, great point a couple posts ago... the player who turns outlaw by helping his friend /clanmate who is attacked by another player...
>> I'll say this again (and again and again and again until I hear a better option) a player should be made outlaw immediately upon attacking another (non outlawed) player unless both are in clan!!! This would solve SO MUCH!!!!
(doesn't necessarily need to be an entire week unless they kill, but at least 2-3 days imo)

oh, and no outlaw for attacking friend... that way we can still "fight for fun, test" etc when we want... and no going outlaw on clan maps or coloseum of course

yes also a player attack bam outlaw 24h, pay it nah !!!

[Asmodeous]

So i dont have to quote both posts and make this longer than it should be.

I agree that comp wouldnt make a ton of rules for outlaws if pvp outside of clans wasnt warrented. But theres a point where it does go too far. Sure theres some nice things to add it to make it a bit harder. But they should be fun too. It shouldnt be to the point that no ones going to attack each other. Or worse yet. Do that clan/declan thing.

Some people love hunting outlaws. Good on them. They make it their mission to kill them. Some people also do it for the dumbest reasons too. Like "outlaw evil person". Shops that wont deal with outlaws, looks nice on paper but itl just be a niggly pain in the butt thing thatl give more grief than its worth.

You could turn that on its head. Maybe they would rather deal with the outlaw rather than risking his anger and getting killed over it. Sure prices could vary on certain items because of the status and possible wrath from the guards who "attack" outlaws on sight.

On your second post. Maybe turning them outlaw for an hour or so would be a bit better. 2 to 3 days of getting owned for one pvp initiation is a bit heavy. Especially for an already heavy pvp game.

Attacking someone on your friends list and not having the outlaw tag pinned to you would also be kinda nice. For tests etc.

Instead of focusing on continually making this a punishment, and lumping legitimate outlaws in the same category as rule breakers. Why not blow this wide open, expand it into a thing of its own? Over and above "look an outlaw lets try to kill him".

Why not make an eventual city where they have their own form of guards who attack people who arent outlaws? Every place has its own form of gang/criminal activities and safe havens. Why not try to make it more than a punishment and actually make it a feature?

[blitzcraig]

about shops, that's a fine point.... if the game grows enough, I could see some shops not dealing with outlaws (or higher prices) and also some giving lower prices... also, maybe an npc somewhere who sells specialty items, but only talks with outlaws etc... BUT, if that happens, we'd need another way to become outlaw imo to not encourage extra pvp

about the time duration on outlaw being a couple hours, I couldn't disagree more strongly lol - - for example, a couple days ago my highest level alt (Emrys) was jumped by 3 players - lost an irreplaceable 350 bracelet... for me, that's fine.. I'm a GM, so I will just never wear droppable gear again to make sure there are no hard feelings - but to think a player would lose items like this, and the attacker(s) would only have to play an alt for an hour to avoid retribution is crazy to me (risk of attacking needs to be substantial)

[Asmodeous]

Their also in your last 15 attackers list. It means you can go after them quite happily without risking outlawing yourself. Unless im wrong on how that system works.

Outlawing someone for a single attack, you might aswell not pvp at all. Let alone if it was going to stick for a few days each time. In this sense its just a blatent punishment for pvping altogether. For a single kill, why should everyone then get to take it out on that one player an unlimited amount of times for 2 to 3 days, even when the pvp probably doesnt concern 3/4 of the FT world?

A specialty shop for outlaws would be neat but whatevers in there would need to be restricted to outlaws only and whatevers gained from there should become void until the players an outlaw again.

If you make this a proper feature instead of a mediocre way of punishing people, you might even find that a small community of outlaws forms. But if this kind of stuff were to happen, i agree youd need an alternate way to outlaw. Maybe make city guards attackable but when targeted a warning to say you would outlaw for it?

The fact everyone can attack an outlaw is fine, the fact people outlaw on others is fine. To not outlaw in return, that "last 15" thing covers you for that right? So since that helps a little. Why not expand it?

It could be pretty epic. Move it away from a punishment, and this warped view that their evil/bad/whatever people continually label it as and turn it into its own playstyle. With its own risks and rewards.

But I guess to do that. Outlaw stuff will need an overhaul.

[blitzcraig]

about last 15, it was a big improvement over nothing, but still doesn't cover a ton of issues... outlaw on attack would pretty well cover them all. additionally, the last 15 attackers is much too drastic in another sense - you say is too much that if I attack somebody, that everybody (his alts and friends and clanmates may importantly) can attack me back for a couple days.... I disagree.... also, I think it's too much that the attacked person can attack me back for sick a long period of time - the whole mechanic has led to several issues, and while it did address a few, it missed many others. IMO, this is the number two priority issue behind class balance

[blitzcraig]

oh, and to answer your question in the second paragraph - because it simply make sense.... hate to sound so simplistic, but that's how obvious it is to me - - if a player wants to attack other players who do not want pvp (which he can always do) then he deserves to be attacked back by anybody who wants to attack him... you say it will discourage or end pvp altogether, but I disagree... those who wish to play this role will continue to do so... those who want to abuse the game every way they can and purposely irritate others will have to pay a price now to do it