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Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:51 pm
by vlad198401
No, Arashiko.

If ppl bought these fraud items for in-game money or just got them as gift, not knowing that these items are cloned, they did not do anything unlawful. But now it looks like you can simply jail innocent account (and it is innocent until you prove it is guilty and present him the proof) and tell him
If you want to see exact reason, then you can forget about it.
How nice of you. How lawful you are in this case. How joyfully you spit on players for the sake of
1: could have been
2: could
3: could have

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:54 pm
by SellSword
Ok, I can't even read what all was said, but "unlawful" and "presumption of innocence" sort of comments would be appropriate discussing matters in the judicial system for some countries, not a game. Even within the judicial system it is common for those arrested to be held with high or no bail if they are deemed a flight risk or there are other concerns, all while still awaiting a trial. When the trial starts, sure, presumption of innocence is the general principle. Differences between countries, of course.

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:28 pm
by Akkilles
Hi.
And I assume that you or any of your alts are in jail ??vlad198401 ??? Yes it's my question to you ? ( I know you won't admit it ) or ??

You can call me for rude it's doesn't matter. Many players who've been sent to jail , allways want to see why and mostly don't even admit they are wrong untill they have think about their actions carefully and many of them also haven't read the GAME RULES .
And understand why they have sent to jail.

So please call me rude or what ever , I still don't like a cheater , you can depend a cheater but ask your self this, do you really care about thoes
innocent players ???

Thoes who are allways kind, allways work hard to gain their levels and items and never have the thought of cheating anything or anyone, in this game, who are allways glad to meet you in game And allways ask if you need help. Who may soon stop playing because a cheater is KILLING his fun.
Well you decide on that one and have a nice day.

.... ops
Oh yeah I forgot to mention!!!.
PLEASE WAIT UNTILL THE INVESTIGATIONS ARE COMPLETTED .


(wow I just tried GOLGREN accent, feels good 😉)

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:53 pm
by MadMikael
Since real life was brought up, I'd like to mention this.
What if, in real life, you were given something very expensive as a gift?
Turns out it was stolen....
Now, it is quite normal for police to detain you to ask you about it - why? You're in possession of stolen property.
There's nothing unlawful about that.

Is it possible some may be released without punishment? Yes.
But there is still a lot of information left to go over to try and tell the guilty apart from the less guilty.
Everyone jailed thus far is "guilty by association", which is a common thing in real life as well.
Being an "accessory" is a charge that people can face in real life, simply from not reporting illegal activity (by not acting, you're helping).
Now, trying to determine how guilty each account is, is not easy.
But I do know, there are many accounts that will NEVER be released after this.
If you (or your friend) are as innocent as you claim, you will be released - eventually.
As stated above, there are several things going on all at once - like this current update.
I hear mention above of "unfairness"; how fair would it be to all of FT to put off the update to deal with solely this issue?
There are enough other issues that are taking a back seat to this investigation....
The option decided on here was chosen, as it negatively affects the least amount of players.
There is no option that is ideal. Please be patient.

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:00 pm
by vlad198401
Nope, JV. None of my accounts is in jail. I missed all the bug fuss.
Yepp, JV. I care about innocent players.
---
By the way, no need shouting.
---
And I feel that GMs in this case act like having monopoly of the truth. I don't call you bad, you helped me several times, you solved my problems, and you really work hard. But this bug related situation looks dirty.

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:08 pm
by MadMikael
We're so bound by red tape.
Would I like to release a full list of all accounts jailed? Yes.
Are we allowed to? No. But, this one may change - like the scammer list.

Would we show the logs of those in jail? Never.
Why? We are NEVER allowed to show logs to players.
Since they are used to prove guilt in many ways, if players knew exactly what logs said, they could attempt to find ways around them.
Not that it would work, but who knows?

As for legal actions.
Some players have already threatened legal actions due to jailings.
In these cases, we make backups of the logs required; if the court system approaches us, we can submit them as evidence.
But even in those cases - those logs are not shown to the player involved.

Every time there is a punished player (of a serious nature), I almost always wish I could oust them to the public.
I'm not allowed to - confidentiality.
It's a shame too - as I think, if I had with certain players, there would be certain other players who would not be in permanent jail now, as they may not have dealt with them had they known.

Monopoly of truth? Yeah, I guess.
But, we can't release the details without causing more harm to some.
It seems to me, that in cases like this, there is no right decision; you can only choose from wrong decisions, and try and choose the one that is the least wrong.
The real issue is - why do we even need a jail in the first place? If players would simply not be such ****** sometimes, we wouldn't need one.
This situation is unfortunate.... but had we not acted, things would have been far worse.

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:35 pm
by Akkilles
Hehe

I'm not angry nor mean to shout . I like

COLORFUL

Message 😁

I love my work as a GM and I would do evertything to save the game from cheaters. Also I allways like to be honest about what I feel and what I say. If you felt any tention from my previous post , then I'm sorry .
I WASN'T ANGRY . Take care

Oops I did it again . Sorry GOLGREN

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
by Tiyrk
Я почитал письма по теме, хотя это и тяжело для меня не знающего английского языка.
Меня заочно сделали виноватым в чем-то, но не сказали в чем.
Хочу заявить:
1) я никогда не передавал свой ак кому бы то не было.
2) я никогда не пользовался никакими читали.
3) я никогда не клонировать предметы.
4) все улучшения, как то дом, уровни, я покупал за деньги в разделе "купитпопредмеьы и уровни".
5) и в конце концов я бы хотел понять, за что я оказался и по настоящее время нахожусь в вашей ****** тюрьме, может это дискриминация по национальному признаку.

Edited for language

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:51 pm
by MadMikael
Tiyrk wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm Я почитал письма по теме, хотя это и тяжело для меня не знающего английского языка.
Меня заочно сделали виноватым в чем-то, но не сказали в чем.
Хочу заявить:
1) я никогда не передавал свой ак кому бы то не было.
2) я никогда не пользовался никакими читали.
3) я никогда не клонировать предметы.
4) все улучшения, как то дом, уровни, я покупал за деньги в разделе "купитпопредмеьы и уровни".
5) и в конце концов я бы хотел понять, за что я оказался и по настоящее время нахожусь в вашей ****** тюрьме, может это дискриминация по национальному признаку.

Edited for language
Как указано выше, для этого есть игроки из нескольких стран в тюрьме.
Идея о том, что это заговор против нации, смехотворна, и я нахожу ваш тип мышления оскорбительным.

Теперь я не знаю, что вы лично сделали.
Я знаю, что некоторые, когда они выяснили, что они могут это сделать, распространяют множество незаконных предметов (что приводит к огромному количеству украденных денег - что-то, что наказуемо в соответствии с настоящим законом). Это те, кого вы должны сердиться, поскольку они являются причиной того, что все находятся в тюрьме. Мы должны были сажать в тюрьму всех тех, кого мы были уверены, а также тех, на которых мы не были на 100% уверены - задержание для расследования

Возможно, вы просто были связаны с неправильными людьми.
Я не знаю - еще много записей, но я не из тех, кто смотрит на них. Я видел списки игроков, и количество работы осталось делать. Это не незначительная сумма.

Что касается ваших покупок - все, что купилось до этого, особенно дома, не должно быть затронуто. Я думаю ... хотя это зависит только от того, насколько честным является ваше выступление. Для худших правонарушителей администраторы (и владелец) могут принять решение о более строгом курсе действий. Надеюсь, вы не среди них.

Во всяком случае, по-прежнему остается много информации, поэтому вам придется быть терпеливым. Это несчастливо, но сроки на это были очень плохими. На данный момент так много происходит, и это не мелочи.
----------------

As stated above, there are players from several countries in prison for this.
The idea that it's a conspiracy against a nation is ludicrous, and I find your type of thinking insulting.

Now, I don't know what you personally did.
I know that some, when they figured out they could do this, spread around many illegal items (which result in a huge amount of stolen money - something that is punishable under real law). Those are the ones you should be angry with, as they are the reason everyone is in jail. We had to jail all those we were sure of, as well as those we were not 100% sure of as well - detaining for investigation is something that occurs in real life as well.

It is possible, you were simply involved with the wrong people.
I do not know - there are many records yet to go over, and I'm not one of those looking at them. I have seen the lists of players, and the amount of work left to do. It is not a minor amount.

As for your purchases - anything bought before this, especially a house, should not be affected I think... although, that only depends on how honest your above statement is. For the worst offenders, the admins (and the owner) may decide to pursue more strict course of actions. I trust, you're not among them.

Anyway, there is still a lot of information to go over, so you will have to be patient. It is unfortunate, but, the timing on this was very bad. There is so much going on at the moment, and they are not small things.

Re: Требую разъяснения

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 pm
by Tiyrk
Нуу, о дискриминации было было написано не для того, чтобы оскорбить "следователей" а для того, чтобы их расшевелить.
Что же касается всего прочего сказанного вами - я могу это понять, но не могу принять.