Forgotten Tales

Im a bit hesistant about completely removing the spawn limit. I think I'd like it to be increased but not removed. I'll try and explain why.

I'm not a numbers person, so haven't commented on the % post for that reason.

Let's say a high level player is on a screen like ghost archers. There you can drop three bows. It's the 150 bow that's the prize for quests, but there's a fairly useful 100 bow and the other level 15(?) choice.

This player enjoys the unlimited spawn, but is to all intents and purposes indestructible.

As you can only have a maximum amount of monsters on screen at any one time, any other player basically has to wait patiently until the high player has finished.

So if I want , say, a 150 bow. I'll go to that map, grind until I get one (probably getting 30-odd other bows beforehand) and this is the crucial bit- I will then leave as I have got what I came for. 

Some players will maybe wait until they drop 10 to either store or give to clan mates. In the meantime the low level player has to wait an unfair amount of time.

If the drop % chance for the 150 bow is reduced for the high level player whilst the spawn limit is completely removed, it will actually be worse for low level players as they will have to wait even longer before the high level player leaves.

I hope I've explained this well enough.

Leone wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:35 pm Im a bit hesistant about completely removing the spawn limit. I think I'd like it to be increased but not removed. I'll try and explain why.

I'm not a numbers person, so haven't commented on the % post for that reason.

Let's say a high level player is on a screen like ghost archers. There you can drop three bows. It's the 150 bow that's the prize for quests, but there's a fairly useful 100 bow and the other level 15(?) choice.

This player enjoys the unlimited spawn, but is to all intents and purposes indestructible.

As you can only have a maximum amount of monsters on screen at any one time, any other player basically has to wait patiently until the high player has finished.

So if I want , say, a 150 bow. I'll go to that map, grind until I get one (probably getting 30-odd other bows beforehand) and this is the crucial bit- I will then leave as I have got what I came for. 

Some players will maybe wait until they drop 10 to either store or give to clan mates. In the meantime the low level player has to wait an unfair amount of time.

If the drop % chance for the 150 bow is reduced for the high level player whilst the spawn limit is completely removed, it will actually be worse for low level players as they will have to wait even longer before the high level player leaves.

I hope I've explained this well enough.

As this is one of the multiple posts regarding possible increasing limit rather then removing, how would having the spawn limit be based on a formula similar to the drop displayed on this post? (Higher level you are, the more increase you have, but it wont ever reach unlimited). (Also all classes would have the same spawn limit, so one class wouldnt be able to outperform the other).

I think that players need to keep in mind that the church altar for level 2,000 players requires those players to purposely go after lower level mobs to gather the random items that the altar requires for a chance to get a piece of 2k gear.

This part of the game makes it necessary for higher level players to farm lower level mobs for drops.

Please keep these players in mind.

I get that the idea is to encourage higher lvl players to simply "buy" the low lvl items needed from lower lvl players to both encourage trading / moneymaking to low levels AND combat inflation/AFK auto XP but there are still a couple of problems:

1. Not enough players for an economy that doesn't encourage just gathering your own items

2. Kill rate. It's still faster to use a higher lvl account because even though the drop rate might be 50%-100% greater for a low lvl; a higher lvl can kill 1000%+ more mob in the same amount of time as the lower level making the reduction pointless. All I see it doing is making high lvl camp / take up the map limit longer.





Just my 2 cents meow.


If there was a way to implement a spawn area limit rather than a map limit then maybe it'd work out a bit better, but idk how you'd work that in. Idk coding and such meow

ryaca_ wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:47 pm I think that players need to keep in mind that the church altar for level 2,000 players requires those players to purposely go after lower level mobs to gather the random items that the altar requires for a chance to get a piece of 2k gear.

This part of the game makes it necessary for higher level players to farm lower level mobs for drops.

Please keep these players in mind.

Very good point ryaca.

ryaca_ wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:47 pm I think that players need to keep in mind that the church altar for level 2,000 players requires those players to purposely go after lower level mobs to gather the random items that the altar requires for a chance to get a piece of 2k gear.

This part of the game makes it necessary for higher level players to farm lower level mobs for drops.

Please keep these players in mind.

+1 Not fair to the players NEEDING the items to force a dependence on alts / lower lvl players. The idea would prolly work out better if there were more players / bigger economy though, but I digress...



Also forgot to mention in previous post that one of the advantages/incentives to becoming higher leveled in any game is to be able to kill lower leveled mobs easier. It wouldn't be fair to simply deny / restrict drops simply because they can kill them much faster either as that's an intended benefit of becoming stronger in basically every game with a leveling system.


Alternative mobs that are higher level yet give the same drops as lower level would be an idea. Would potentially add a lot of game size from so many new mobs though, so maybe instead:


Expand drop tables so that you can get the same items from different mobs already in-game. If this were done you could drop the chances of getting an item from a mob that's WAY under your level but give a boost to drop rate if you kill something that's around your level. I'm not saying every mob would have access to every item, just expand on which mobs can drop what so everybody is not competing for the same limited spawn.

Would work well in combination of the drop rate changes to encourage getting items from mobs your own level.


or..


Could also have a "rare drop table" with a small chance for the normal drop to "roll" the table with another "roll" to determine the drop that you get. Not every mob has to have access to the same drop table either; can create a few different tables and assign mobs to different tables according to mob level or rarity of the item(s) on the table.

Example kill mob A, instead of normal drop it hits the "Table" drop which starts another roll to determine the item actually dropped. Obligatory idea from a different game, but it's an idea that works and think it would work well for here too.




Btw going UP (killing mobs higher than your level) I don't like the idea of extra XP / drop rate either as that will just encourage lower levels to crash / block / harass for leech more than they do now. The more I thought about it the less I liked that idea tbh.


Also, there's still the fact that mages have a huge advantage in obtaining drops due to the amount of PvM damage they can deal combined with effortless multi-targeting that doesn't make you move unwillingly. A probably unpopular opinion would be to further reduce the drop chance for mages to compensate being able to kill way more mobs than any other class of the same level; but considering the class distribution of higher leveled accounts I highly doubt this idea will go very far.

Based on the ideas brought forth, I would say to switch the post thread topic to Ideas on how to improve spawn. From the poll results so far, it seems players want unlimited spawn and increased drop rate. Comment below the best idea you can think of, of how to implement this with as little abuse as possible

terminator wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:20 am Comment below the best idea you can think of, of how to implement this with as little abuse as possible

The best idea I can think of:

• spend a few weeks playing other games, reading info about them, so to study how they might cope with similar issues and perhaps get inspiration
  .
• study ideas proposed by players here and ideas from previous point, aiming to foresee problems and decide on the best one
  .
• implement it in a separate server, and get a few professional testers stress the system to spot abuses and bugs
  .
• correct bugs and repeat testing until there's none to be found before public releasing

vasinta wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:15 am

terminator wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:20 am Comment below the best idea you can think of, of how to implement this with as little abuse as possible

The best idea I can think of:

• spend a few weeks playing other games, reading info about them, so to study how they might cope with similar issues and perhaps get inspiration
  .
• study ideas proposed by players here and ideas from previous point, aiming to foresee problems and decide on the best one
  .
• implement it in a separate server, and get a few professional testers stress the system to spot abuses and bugs
  .
• correct bugs and repeat testing until there's none to be found before public releasing

You are the most professional and responsible staff that was in this game.I hope you will found a game in which they will listen to you and value what you do and your abilities will be paid because you deserve it.

But I would also like to notice Kromelg who made all the latest updates that has an understanding of all this at a very high level.He is the most valuable player and GM who has ever been in a game that has brought maximum benefit to the game. He is why the game is still here.Many say that you only say and do nothing, but Kromelg is an example of the one who held this game in his hands with his updates.
I just have unlimited respect for this man for everything he has done for this game.But as he told me recently, he does not control the future of the game, and even if he would like to help try make it better;do it as he imagines it, he apparently doesn’t even give such an opportunity.
Ardesia and Kromelg want to make the game as good as possible, but their ideas do not seem to fit into the monetary interests of the developer.No matter how much you want to do everything well, when money rules the world.