Forgotten Tales

Humble_M wrote:I did my best to provide a neutral reply...and not drag my poor mage into the conversation! but...since you mentioned it, aren't mages the only characters currently affected by this?

One might say, why are we not conversing about a dwarves pvp impotence or some other imbalance, and yet we continue to talk about how to make a Mage more powerful!

Khmer wrote:

Humble_M wrote:I did my best to provide a neutral reply...and not drag my poor mage into the conversation! but...since you mentioned it, aren't mages the only characters currently affected by this?

One might say, why are we not conversing about a dwarves pvp impotence or some other imbalance, and yet we continue to talk about how to make a Mage more powerful!

I keep hearing everyone say how powerful mages are, yet in all the time that I've played, I've yet to come across a mage over level 1000! I'm barely getting by and my level is mid 240s.

couple things:

yes, mages are the most discussed class for sure. I believe this is mostly because for most purposes, there are essentially 2 classes - mages and "other"... that's simply how the core mechanics are set up.

there is a lot of discussion about mages still being
overpowered. most of this discussion is centered around mages at ridiculously high levels which the VAST majority of players will never see - somebody commented earlier that unless you've played PVP with characters over level 3,000 you don't know what you're talking about with this game... I disagree. 95%+ of the players in FT have never seen that level (and most likely never will) --- catering to these top few players and ignoring everybody else with our conversation does not work toward improving the game.

This idea does very little to "make the OP mages even more powerful" - if implemented correctly, it'd be worthless in 1v1 -- it would help against large groups of much lower players, and it'd help in PvM by allowing the mage to work the way it should... for those "anti-mage" people complaining, let me ask you a question: if you were attacked by a group of low level characters, and your armor only protected against one of them, you'd complain, right? Of course you would, because it makes no sense --- in a similar way, mages complain because they are forced to heal everybody around them (including the people attacking them)... it's a stupid game mechanic and if you're honest, there is no way you can argue.

a lot of other stuff has been brought into good conversation (other classes, potions etc) but the one thing I haven't seen, which would actually fit here, is talk about adjusting the multiplier on the current mage heal spell.. or possibly even making it so that it heals everybody in range EXCEPT the caster him/herself...

Khmer wrote:

Should not a 5 k swordsman be competitive with a 5k ogre, a 100lvl dwarf with a 100lvl archer? so I query... Why is a mage considered special, the most dominant character in FT, and yet there is, on this forum anyway, I assume it floats, an extreme bias, and yet you still, attacking my last nerve, ask for more , a deadly sin

Khmer, you make strong and valid points.
My first account was a swordsman. He cannot compete as you say. Add to that my ineptness at controlling and PvP, and I'm outmatched by players way below my level, let alone his level equal. But you're right, classes of equal level should have a close level of competition.
As for the mage comment, blitzcraig describes it best:

blitzcraig wrote: yes, mages are the most discussed class for sure. I believe this is mostly because for most purposes, there are essentially 2 classes - mages and "other"... that's simply how the core mechanics are set up.

That's it in a nutshell.

blitzcraig wrote: there is a lot of discussion about mages still being
overpowered. most of this discussion is centered around mages at ridiculously high levels which the VAST majority of players will never see - somebody commented earlier that unless you've played PVP with characters over level 3,000 you don't know what you're talking about with this game... I disagree. 95%+ of the players in FT have never seen that level (and most likely never will) --- catering to these top few players and ignoring everybody else with our conversation does not work toward improving the game.

I can't stress this enough. Yes, the players who pay for high levels do make a great contribution to the game. But they are the minority, and IMO they are not the form of steady income that keeps the game going. Its basically a one time purchase, and negates many other purchases. IMO the steady flow of income comes from those who buy most frequently - these are the lower levels, and a large part are newer players. Pet purchases are a big factor - not purchased as often at higher levels. By my observations, a typical new player will play for a while, get hooked, make several purchases... then they either move on, or they stay. This moves them into the category of regular players... where pet purchases can be more frequent, and the odds of other purchases more likely. All one time purchases, such as levels, houses, backpacks etc. are nice income, but once bought that income usually ceases, or becomes sporadic. The exception are those who may have many alts or houses... still though, the temporary purchases are where the game gets the most support IMO.

blitzcraig wrote: a lot of other stuff has been brought into good conversation (other classes, potions etc) but the one thing I haven't seen, which would actually fit here, is talk about adjusting the multiplier on the current mage heal spell.. or possibly even making it so that it heals everybody in range EXCEPT the caster him/herself...

I will personally put this out there - blitzcraig is a numbers guy and in the past he's worked on so many of them for the game.
You should consider his opinion expert. He's been around the game longer than I have, has dealt with its inner workings and mechanics (not in a coding way, everything but coding he's done) more than almost anyone, and he was a GM for quite some time - even an admin. If he says its possible, I take him at his word.

As for the multiplier - I've brought it up a few times... not many seem to acknowledge it though.
Mages have a multiplication in their attack. Other classes do not. This should be changed IMO.
"Specialists" - shameless plug.

As for me, I'd have no problem if the mage's heal spell were altered or eliminated. I use it occassionally for PvM. I can't say for PvP since I avoid that game play whenever possible.

blitzcraig wrote:couple things:



there is a lot of discussion about mages still being
overpowered. most of this discussion is centered around mages at ridiculously high levels which the VAST majority of players will never see - somebody commented earlier that unless you've played PVP with characters over level 3,000 you don't know what you're talking about with this game... I disagree. 95%+ of the players in FT have never seen that level (and most likely never will) --- catering to these top few players and ignoring everybody else with our conversation does not work toward improving the game.

Seriously???? This is a very naive statement. Saying that 95% of the ft population will never see a high level mage is laughable. You can tell the future now? First of all this discussion does not just focus on "ridiculously" high levels. I travel all over the FT world map. All of the hotspots. Mushy's, spawn, the wagon map, devil's island, ancient minotaurs cave giants, the platinum ore map. I always see high level mages at these spots. Levels 1,000, 1,500, 2,000, 2500, 3,000 and higher. Second of all, how can you even think that you can attempt to speak for 95% of the FT community???? Where did you come up with this statistic???? Third of all is this: I made the statement about the 3k level and below not knowing what they are talking about because low level mages don't know how ungodly powerful they will become at 1k, 1500, 2k, 2500, 3k and beyond. There is even a player on this thread that says he doesn't understand how players can say that mages are OP because he has a hard time at his low level. THAT IS WHY I MADE THAT COMMENT...THEY DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR. I also want to ask you if you even play ft to not have seen a high level mage? How many hours a day do you play? Do you even play everyday? I haven't missed one day since I started playing ft.

blitzcraig wrote: complain because they are forced to heal everybody around them (including the people attacking them)... it's a stupid game mechanic and if you're honest, there is no way you can argue

First of all mages do not heal their attackers during pvp. Second of all, if I disagree with this statement then I am not honest???? So I cannot argue???? I cannot voice my opinion???
Seriously blitz, I have read many of your posts and you are almost always unbiased. Your last post was not. You are very biased and pushing this idea with all of your might. It is PAINFULLY obvious which character class that you play the most and which character class that you favor.

There is something that has not been brought up on any of the three threads discussing this issue and I feel like now is the time to bring it up.

UNLIMITED MANA

Mages at around level 1700 or around that level gain unlimited mana. This is one of the main reason mages are so "ridiculously' overpowered. I have a suggestion: why not make it so that every level that a mage gains, their spells cost more mana to cast? This way even " ridiculously" high level mages will ALWAYS have to worry about running out of mana. MAGES SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO HAVE UNLIMITED MANA SO THEY CAN JUST CAST AWAY TO THEIR HEARTS CONTENT!!!!!!! You wanna talk about "stupid" game mechanics? Talk about that

MadMikael wrote: I can't stress this enough. Yes, the players who pay for high levels do make a great contribution to the game. But they are the minority, and IMO they are not the form of steady income that keeps the game going. Its basically a one time purchase, and negates many other purchases. IMO the steady flow of income comes from those who buy most frequently - these are the lower levels, and a large part are newer players. Pet purchases are a big factor - not purchased as often at higher levels. By my observations, a typical new player will play for a while, get hooked, make several purchases... then they either move on, or they stay. This moves them into the category of regular players... where pet purchases can be more frequent, and the odds of other purchases more likely. All one time purchases, such as levels, houses, backpacks etc. are nice income, but once bought that income usually ceases, or becomes sporadic. The exception are those who may have many alts or houses... still though, the temporary purchases are where the game gets the most support IMO.

I have made purchases since day 1 and I still make purchases. I looked at all of my google play receipts and is a lot of purchases. I know that many others that buy levels also continue to make purchases so I disagree with you about purchases being a 1 time thing.

I know of a player that is level 10k+ and a player that is almost 10k and two players that are over 7k. That's like $35,000 dollars that has went straight into Compbatant's pocket. He probably took a nice long vacation with that money. So I have to disagree with you that bought high level players don't contribute the most to FT with their purchases. And that is only a "MINORITY" of the many players that have contributed large amounts of money to this game, players that have purchased thousands of levels. Minority? Maybe, but not by much.

Ryaca wrote: Seriously???? This is a very naive statement. Saying that 95% of the ft population will never see a high level mage is laughable. You can tell the future now?

I touched on this in my last post. Look at any official reputable site that deals with statistics of game users. Over time, this 95% will be more accurate. However, I think in this case, he used the number for emphasis... it can not be entirely accurate, as it would be a variable in a constant state of flux. The point was that the majority (with high %) will never reach such high levels. To cater the game to the minority - even if they pay a lot for levels - is not in the best interest of the game's longevity.

Ryaca wrote: First of all mages do not heal their attackers during pvp.

This is not exactly true. If a player sneaks up on you and hits you hard, you may not have time to target them first before healing. If they are not targeted, they will be healed as well. OH - don't forget about that unable to target bug that's going around. Yeah, that's a thing. IMO all PvP should be ceased until that one is fixed. Don't tell me you haven't seen it.

Ryaca wrote: Second of all, if I disagree with this statement then I am not honest???? So I cannot argue???? I cannot voice my opinion???
Seriously blitz, I have read many of your posts and you are almost always unbiased. Your last post was not. You are very biased and pushing this idea with all of your might. It is PAINFULLY obvious which character class that you play the most and which character class that you favor.

Your statement here contradicts itself.
You're claiming bias, but using bias. Your emotions are clearly not under control.
You're taking things a little too literally and personally.
You claim you've read old posts, yet you clearly show that either you didn't read the important ones, or you never understood them.
blitzcraig has been arguing this same argument a long time.
The sad part is, you guys agree in many ways, but you're attacking his words.
There could be some bias on his part, yes, but in the opposite direction that you infer.
He's always been for getting a handle on the mage.

Whether the mage is OP to someone or not really doesn't matter... the fact is that they are inherently OP, as all three of us have said.
The base formulae are where the problem lie.

MadMikael wrote:

Ryaca wrote: Seriously???? This is a very naive statement. Saying that 95% of the ft population will never see a high level mage is laughable. You can tell the future now?

I touched on this in my last post. Look at any official reputable site that deals with statistics of game users. Over time, this 95% will be more accurate. However, I think in this case, he used the number for emphasis... it can not be entirely accurate, as it would be a variable in a constant state of flux. The point was that the majority (with high %) will never reach such high levels. To cater the game to the minority - even if they pay a lot for levels - is not in the best interest of the game's longevity.

Ryaca wrote: First of all mages do not heal their attackers during pvp.

This is not exactly true. If a player sneaks up on you and hits you hard, you may not have time to target them first before healing. If they are not targeted, they will be healed as well. OH - don't forget about that unable to target bug that's going around. Yeah, that's a thing. IMO all PvP should be ceased until that one is fixed. Don't tell me you haven't seen it.

Ryaca wrote: Second of all, if I disagree with this statement then I am not honest???? So I cannot argue???? I cannot voice my opinion???
Seriously blitz, I have read many of your posts and you are almost always unbiased. Your last post was not. You are very biased and pushing this idea with all of your might. It is PAINFULLY obvious which character class that you play the most and which character class that you favor.

Your statement here contradicts itself.
You're claiming bias, but using bias. Your emotions are clearly not under control.
You're taking things a little too literally and personally.
You claim you've read old posts, yet you clearly show that either you didn't read the important ones, or you never understood them.
blitzcraig has been arguing this same argument a long time.
The sad part is, you guys agree in many ways, but you're attacking his words.
There could be some bias on his part, yes, but in the opposite direction that you infer.
He's always been for getting a handle on the mage.

Whether the mage is OP to someone or not really doesn't matter... the fact is that they are inherently OP, as all three of us have said.
The base formulae are where the problem lie.

Whatever. Why are you responding bout a quote where I quoted another player? Do you think that he is not capable of answering for himself? I conpletely disagree with you and your argument shows that your emotions are also involved. Go ahead and pick apart my argument if you want. The truth hurts. And don't tell me what I have or haven't seen.