Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

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LIZARDKING
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by LIZARDKING » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:19 pm

I screenshot, posted time and position of a spawn killer 4 days ago to a GM. I have seen player since then.and player did not recieve outlaw status or any punishment that I can tell. Not only did this player spawn dozens of red devils on me and my pets, but instantly, when my health turned yellow they attacked me and had a mage disengage their wand to heal at only their range. I logged before death, but I assume this would still be considered spawn killing
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Cashew
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Cashew » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:42 pm

There are maps that have various difficulty of monsters on them, red crocy is a prime example.

It's very easy to spawn and drag a fairy (or more) to low level players killing the crocy/lions on this map.

You realize the fairies would kill both the player and pets in a matter of seconds?

Just no. I'm sorry but this will never fly. Way too easily abused even if there was a limit.

Btw when you join a clan you can fight anyone else also in a clan regardless of level.


Whilst pet killing isn't technically against the rules, it falls under the same umbrella term known as spawn killing. If you drag some mob and kill me/my pets you can bet your ash me, my clan, and all allies will permanently hunt you down every time we see your name relentlessly. So do quite a few other players as well.

Before you "have a bit of fun" just make sure you're prepared to have that account and all "found" alts harassed by every player that knows you're a pet/spawn killer. I know people that create alts just to hunt specific known pet killers so they can match their unclanned level and still pvp.

Pets cost real money, what you're proposing is the limited allowance of destruction of property. Ain't gonna happen.
Nilez wrote:
blitzcraig wrote:Your idea of doing it rarely, or "once-in-a-while" or twice a month may sound fun to you, and not cross over into harassment... but what would actually happen if such a rule was in place is that twenty players would use this "rare" event once per day with 25 alts each - leading to 500 spawn kill events every day. And frankly, that's being overly nice... because in reality, they'd do it 10 times each on each alt and when they got caught, they'd claim it was once or twice... eventually the 5,000 times a day that it would happen just from this tiny group of people whom derive their enjoyment from making others miserable would drive more and more players to quit. Additionally, as you said, "a game is defined by how fun it can be" and yet, it seems as though you selfishly desire to reduce the fun of everybody else so that you can get a bit more for yourself...if that's the case, it's pathetic. To my knowledge, I have never - literally not one time ever suggested this to an FT player before, but perhaps if making others miserable is the only way you can have fun, you should find something else to do with your time... FT is better off without you

If, on the other hand, you aren't looking to make others miserable, rather, you are simply looking for a way to make the game better for everybody, then I'd suggest this is not the way to do it - keep thinking of ideas and sharing them like this to be discussed ;)

EDIT - upon rereading my post, I realize it seems that the "ifs" seem somewhat disingenuous.. that was not my intent - because you brought this to the forum respectfully, I'm assuming you are a good person, and my original post did not reflect that assumption - I am leaving it as I wrote it, because I believe it accurately expresses my feelings on the issue :D
No offence intended.

Your example said one thing, I did mention the idea of having a limit, like twice a month. So those same 20 people with their 25 alts(which I don't even know why this game allows (limit on this?)) Would kill about 1000 times a month.

The game mechanics allow it, but in a game of killing thousands of monsters, destroying buildings, etc, killing by spawn is something (I'm assuming afk'ers for example, but not limited to) dislike, cuz it gets in their way. Surely if you are active enough, you could keep out off harm's way, run away from ppl like these, or just kill them yourselves. Right, why don't you kill such ppl in game? With the little attack button. (Are their levels a little too low that you aren't allowed to attack them, while they couldn't possibly match up to your 2k or 3k levels and would have to find different means to attack you, and if you died, that method of killing must be banned). Or they'd have to grind for another year or two, just to be able to kill you.

Surely, if you went adventuring out into the wild, you'd expect thieves to just let you walk by, it's just realistic that they wouldn't stop you, cuz they don't want to go to jail. When does it get any realistic? You kill thousands of monsters, but you don't want to be killed yourself? By a feature of the game.

You don't like spawn killers, so it should be outlawed?

Sure, let me just attack this 2000 level player and die an instant death. (Who has most likely purchased the experience?)

First off never assume. We all know what that means. As I said before, you can not be afk and have you/your pets killed in seconds from this. Afk people aren't the only ones with beef against this, it's actually the normal players.


Secondly, it's the players job to control their own spawn. When some little punk comes and intentionally over spawns in an attempt to kill you then that's not mechanics that's harassment. I personally watch for players attempting this and am able to log out in time but not everyone watches the mini map constantly.

Lastly, your thief example is flawed. It's a game not real life, plus it'd be more like you playing chess/checkers and when you're about to lose just scattering the pieces in a little hissy fit. That's a more accurate example.
Nilez
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Nilez » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:58 pm

LIZARDKING wrote:I screenshot, posted time and position of a spawn killer 4 days ago to a GM. I have seen player since then.and player did not recieve outlaw status or any punishment that I can tell. Not only did this player spawn dozens of red devils on me and my pets, but instantly, when my health turned yellow they attacked me and had a mage disengage their wand to heal at only their range. I logged before death, but I assume this would still be considered spawn killing
Uhh, slightly off topic, but logging out while being attacked will keep your avatar logged in for an extra 11 seconds.
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Cashew
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Cashew » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:23 pm

You can still easily log out in time under normal circumstances. Now if they're much higher level than you or the mob is much stronger than you and can kill in a couple hits then no. It's a dirty cheap tactic when someone is butthurt about something.


The only way I'd accept this is if both the person doing the spawn killing instantly became an outlaw, and then forced compensation on the killers part for any loss of pets. Meaning you spawn kill me, you'd be outlawed so I can kill you at leisure, placed on my attack list so I can kill you even after outlaw, plus automatically have my pets that were also killed were replaced by a forced deduction from your bank account ;)
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Leone
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Leone » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:06 pm

Nilez wrote:
Leone wrote:Let me propose a counter argument then.

If spawn killing is deemed acceptable and not reducing the gaming experience of others, then the perpetrators should be placed on the victim's kill list, just as if they had directly attacked them in pvp.
And the victims could attack the perpetrators anytime they wished (within a week) regardless of their level difference.

Is your idea of a kill list different from that?

P.S.
Idk what events follow when you attack a person directly. Everyone's either been too strong or too weak for me to attack.
Cashew has given it a better name: attack list rather than kill list. I hope you can sense from these replies the frustration we feel about spawn killers.

In answer to your question, if you attack a player directly, you are immediately placed on their attack list. The 15 (I think) most recent players who attacked you can now be targetted by you, regardless of level difference. There is no time limit.

This is not my idea btw -it has been a feature of the game for as long as i can remember.
Nilez
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Nilez » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:27 pm

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I thought killing people was a natural part of the game. I realised just a little while ago that this is more of a peaceful game. Feel a little stupid now. I am on the wrong game lol
blitzcraig
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by blitzcraig » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:44 pm

yes, I can it the "retribution" list ;)

worthy of note, is that there is an old idea about changing the mechanics of the mobs... simply put - when the spawn, they target the closest player to attack... they only retarget when the player closest to them is attacking them... so you could no longer drag monsters to other players

been pushing for it for a long, long time... maybe it's time for you guys to take that torch?
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Arashiko
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Arashiko » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:17 pm

blitzcraig wrote:when they spawn, they <monsters> target the closest player to attack... they only retarget when the player closest to them is attacking them... so you could no longer drag monsters to other players
This would stop players from tanking for low level players, because as soon as the low level players attacked one monster, it would retaliate and most likely kill them.
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blitzcraig
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by blitzcraig » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:54 pm

Im not sure if you see that as a drawback, but I see it as another reason this is great... getting xp from a monster who won't even attack you is silly to me ;)

also worth noting is that if the high level player continued to attack, he could also tank... again, why should the monster ignore the only thing around attacking it? Doesn't make any sense
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Arashiko
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Re: Player killing by spawn is against the rules?

Post by Arashiko » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:39 pm

Oh I agree with you, it makes sense for the monster to attack the most dangerous opponent.
Arashiko Senior GM (RETIRED )
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