after FT 4.0

[rapmd73]

Perhaps the mage should have slow mana regen while moving.. and faster regen when holding still AND not fighting (concentrating). I think this would be a limit in pvp, but a plus in pvm.

And I think the quiver bar for archers is pure genius.. one could even think of other ideas.. if made similar to the mage, archer's could have a 4th stat too, for "reloading".. it would affect the quiver regen (like mana on mage).

To go even further, it could have effect on attack speed, and/or accuracy, if a penalty for hit and run is ever implemented. I still think that archers should need a second or two to aim... and mages should need the same to concentrate

I belive this would be a good compromise to the mage hit and run issue in regards to mana regeneration.

Thank you. My experience with writting DnD style games is giving my age away. LOL. Rather then adding another attribute, why not consider using strength as a means of reload speed for archers?

From my experience, concentration and aiming are very difficult to implement unless you lump them together as the "intelligence INT" attribute. For a mage, INT would be reflective as spell damage potential. For an archer, INT would reflect accuracy or chance per critical.

[blitzcraig]

My experience with writting DnD style games is giving my age away. LOL.

haha, I think I said that exact thing when I started to get active on the forum with ideas on how to reach balance of classes

I like the slower/faster mana regen idea (the difference between mage and other BTW is simply that, while either can be low on HP, only the mage would be unable to fight back...)

After a little thought, I really love the idea of the arrow bar for the archer -- I think it should be a function of dex, since there is currently no difference between the build (stat point assignment) of any class except mage... this would limit the advantage of the archer, and also encourage a slightly different build (balance and diversity) ... some math would need to be done to determine how exactly to implement it of course, which would be influenced by whether or not other ideas are used in conjunction (skill idea mentioned in top post specifically) but I think it could be really cool

[MadMikael]

I agree that its most logical that archer's abilites stem from dex... however I would point out that most archers already have a high dex. The reason I suggested the 4th stat was to try and even it out between archers and mages.

I guess, now that I think about it, most "mage-killer" archers are mostly str, not dex.. so perhaps it could work as a function of dex in this instance.

However, how would this work in archer vs. melee? This is the instance in which archers tend to have high dex already. I suppose, it depends on how the melee are adjusted in the future.

[rearrow]

I think not manna regeneration but the fact of a 100% hit rate together with very fast attack if u got a good connection is the problem w mages.look at a lvl1000archer and a lvl1000 mage jkilling a group of club stans. The archer drops them a lot more slowely and one by one. The mage kills them like crazy in groups if 15.
It also causes the unfair advantage of mages getting all the drops.
I know mages who sold hundreds of bracelets already.

The mechanics of who get a drop should be addressed also.

Mages are weak until around lv 100.
Then they are superior in PCM, PvP and rich. A Lvl 130 mage gets the boss drop if competing w lv250 archer most time.
So people are buying and selling lvl 100+ mages all the time.
In my view mages should get a stat which determines hit chance too like intelligence.if into is higher then dex the spell works. It will force them to do something else then put all in manna. Also casting should have a delay like all other players.
Archers can stay the same
Mellee can have a speed burst skill to close on enemies instantly which also freezes for a few seconds. If a mellee targets and attacks he basicly teleports freezes for a sec and hits a few times. Skill should have a small delay.

[rapmd73]

I agree that its most logical that archer's abilites stem from dex... however I would point out that most archers already have a high dex. The reason I suggested the 4th stat was to try and even it out between archers and mages.

I guess, now that I think about it, most "mage-killer" archers are mostly str, not dex.. so perhaps it could work as a function of dex in this instance.

However, how would this work in archer vs. melee? This is the instance in which archers tend to have high dex already. I suppose, it depends on how the melee are adjusted in the future.

The simplest way would be the classic approach: strength equates to damage while dexterity equates to evasion. Also archers should not have heavy armor if following classic DnD. They should be light and fast with the heaviest armor being leather or non metal/bone/scale.

[blitzcraig]

As a note to everybody involved in this thread: it would be most helpful to give input on the ideas in the first post. If that input says something like "this idea won't work because of x, y, and z reasons, I propose this idea instead" that's fine... I'm just afraid we are building a million ideas, none of which are being properly peer-reviewed and they will remain unused... I'm hoping to build a strong, clear, fully developed set of changes to suggest to creator, thank you for your continued input

[rearrow]

Agree with most but not with immediate outlaw. Sadly some people are intentionaly blocking and often the only way to deals that is getting a lower Lvl alt and shoot them.
I liked asmodeus idea of a timer. If u attack someone he (andhisclan)  can attack ufor an hour. Even if unclanned,lower LCL and if ulog.

[Asmodeous]

BASIC GAME PLAY:OUTLAW SYSTEM:
2> a player should become outlaw immediately when attacking (not targeting) another player unless they are both in a clan or he is attacking an outlaw. This would fix over 95% of abuse issues.

3> you should also become outlaw when you leave a clan (even if kicked) it would solve almost all the other abuse issues, plus it just makes sense. You're in a clan receiving protection from the authorities in PvP, when you leave the clan, you lose the protection.

PVP TARGETING ABUSES:
4> auto-target when attacked (only because they automatically become outlaw if not clanned, so wouldn't worry about being "tricked" into outlaw status) probably add as option in case some don't want it
AND/OR
5> /t command to target players (not perfect but still good)
AND/OR
6> have bubbles appear toward center of map so you can't hide on border or under mini map etc... AND have buttons take precedence when you select a player

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4799 to save retyping all that.

CLASS BALANCE:
7> freeze arrow -> slow arrow in PvP

It sounds good in theory. Will swordsman then be the only one with a freezing skill for pvp? I could see potential abuse of being ganged up upon.. But hell that happens with flame arrow when people time their shots.

8> skills work independently (still 1 @ a time but uSing one doesnt force recharge time of others)

Sounds good also. What about for archers being allowed to use double attack and either freeze (slow) arrow or fire arrow? Reduce cooldown of double attack by 1/4. Reduce cooldown of freeze (slow) arrow by 1/4. It'l give more skill useage to everyone. A much needed boost.

9> all walking speed equal. Add a "speed-1" to plate armor

If all melee are getting a stun/slow I dont see a problem with this. This could sort out the ogres issues of never getting to the target in time. Or not being frank the tank and getting cut down. Ive always found walk speed to be an issue.

10> spell damage = 50 + 2x base_mana + mana_from_gear + dex - opp_dex in PvP AND PvM (still half for PvP though) read explanation below

This seems alright, I think I understand it. But I'd remove the mages dex from the calculation. Even if dex counted for mages they still wouldnt get it. 1 dex for a mage would equal +1 damage to a spell or -1 damge from an enemy spell? I'd rather kill them faster with 1 mana equaling 2 damage minus their dex. Thats if I understand your formula.

11 > give all melee classes a level 20 skill "stun" where target cannot move for 20 seconds, then is slow for 20 while the skill recharges

Comments up at 8>

13> add auto-follow to melee characters as it works in off-line rpg (possibly add in options in case some don't want it)

This. This would be epic. Ive thought about this for so long. Put in attack-on-the-move and it'd work wonders with the stun/slow attacks. Ive always wanted to see this with melee imo it'd make them viable, instead of ranged characters randomly moving and the melee character having to preempt it all. Ive posted what Im about to write next earlier on in the thread but since I have my thoughts collected here I'll add it in.

My piece on a few classes:

For our dwarf players. Make spell resistance half the damage of spells then do dex calculation while active, spell resistance in most games Ive played can be a devastating thing, FT should be no different right. What do you think of spell resistance removing all forms of slow (Mage and archer if it gets slow arrow) while active? Beserk seems really cool. Smash a bunch of people around you and do it with an axe. Epic. What do you think about adding a bit of extra damage to the dwarf while beserking? perhaps even reduce cooldown by 1/4. Let them use both of these at the same time.

With the proposed speed changes, Frank the Tank (Ogre) I reckon should be faster, slightly faster than all others. Their lumbering pieces of muscle that break things with tree trunks (clubs) and with their ungodly size what about an increase in HP for them? 25%? 30%? Its an ogre afterall.

Swordsman, allow him to have the skill that ignores enemy armor active and one of his two other skills. The ogre ... Im not sure about the ogre, if someone could tell me what his skills are that arent twister? with my limited knowledge on it at the moment I believe twister and one other. If I get an update on ogre skills i'll edit post.

CLAN MECHANICS (lower priority than others)
16> much has been written about this, I'm not going to rewrite it here... just didn't want to ignore it in this post (at a bare minimum, duke should be able to set ally and enemy clans (others neutral) then you cannot attack ally, get nothing from killing neutral, get drops and gold from enemy)

I agree with this 100% ... Perhaps a little more control over clan gold aswell.

perhaps the mage should have slow mana regen while moving.. and faster regen when holding still AND not fighting (concentrating). I think this would be a limit in pvp, but a plus in pvm.

This would be great and logical. Its like trying to heal up a wound while still being bashed every so often if you were a warrior. Probably going to do a poor job of it.

Alright. These are my thoughts on everything posted. I'll check in on it again a little later.

Cheers for pointing me in this threads direction Mad.

[Fairy]

As a note to everybody involved in this thread: it would be most helpful to give input on the ideas in the first post. If that input says something like "this idea won't work because of x, y, and z reasons, I propose this idea instead" that's fine... I'm just afraid we are building a million ideas, none of which are being properly peer-reviewed and they will remain unused... I'm hoping to build a strong, clear, fully developed set of changes to suggest to creator, thank you for your continued input

Please excuse my this post. TY

Agree here with all these ideas for class balance. Given that all these ideas are for class balance and to improve the game play for each and every character, I might consider some suggestions here. I was thinking (though the ideas are already in the air) if there could be self-heal spell and self-arm spell for a mage? Due to the lack of such any feature whereby mages can heal themselves only or increase their arm, they are much abused in PvP. A bunch of like-minded players gather around a mage-being-bashed and drain the poor creature limited amount of mana. It is also not possible under all circumstances to un-equip staff, heal your wounds, and then equip. Not sure whether it is a tactic or abuse but the fact is, it is unfair, or it seems to me, rather, unfair.

Another point, every class has its own unique sort of skills, so does the mage. As I am told that the spells of mage are regarded as skills, if so, would not it be possible that mage skills do not occupy space in its little bag? Admit that they are scrolls, but have rote learned them enough that I do not think that the mage community any longer need them in their bags.

In short, make all classes happy by boosting them. Fun and fair play are what we want.

[rapmd73]

I also would like to suggest that all weapons, armor, shields, so forth have minimum limits on strength dexterity and armor attributes to prevent players from putti g all skill points on just one attribute.

For example,

Diamond plate should require str due to weight. I recommend using 1/4 value of level. Staffs should also require strength or dexterity for real world physics.

Swords should require dexterity and shields should require strength. Real world physics is, IMHO, the best way to balance the character attributes thus preventing mono-stat characters.