a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

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Should clan PvP system stay the same or should it be changed?

I like the idea of pay-related clan separation!
1
8%
I like clan grades, let's make clans playable!
4
31%
No! No PvP restrictions for any clans, I want blood!
8
62%
 
Total votes: 13
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kollex
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a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by kollex »

This is a post about clans. And about people of the clans. And about differences between people in clans.
It's called ... CLANS! :D

UPD: Next paragraph, "solutions" section title.

Skip to SOLUTIONS section, if you don't need reasoning

A couple of days ago I tried to help my good friend DWLewis to build a castle. We spent several hours doing so - the 2 of us. We got it up to lvl 22. Then jony(1189) came. The rest is history.
I know this is not the only such case, it was no different from other low-level clans' - and some of the first high-level ones - failed projects.

I constantly see complains on forum that this or that class is overpowered/merked, and pretty contradicting suggestions to either strengthen or weaken one or the other.

The game is definitely unbalanced, and the main destabilizer is ... bought levels.
For example, lower level mage can beat sometimes a higher level archer, if the stats are correct to do so. But mages are slower to develop than archers, so in the same time they level less, which balances the game somewhat. Meanwhile levels for both classes cost the same, shifting advantage to mages with level-buying players. But some players are already invested in their non-mage characters - be it a financial investment, or an emotional one.
That's if we're forgetting non-level-buying players completely. If we are not, see this:
I took me about 2 months of many hours a day to get my archer to lvl 150, last 13 of those - completely on spawn parties (meaning fire arrow use on high HP monsters). Sure, it wasn't all grinding in perfect conditions and with perfect stats, but can you blame me for enjoying the game besides grinding? :)
150 levels is ~2bn XP. Let's see what next couple of 2bn-XP-portions (and time spent) will give me:
34 lvls - to 184 (~4bn total), 26 lvls - to 210 (~6bn PX total), 20 lvls - to 230(~8bn), 19, 17, 15, 15, 14 etc.
So in a year from the point i started playing I will be ... lvl266. Wow! Let's say I'm slow and this is an estimate for half a year of intensive playing. Hmm. With whom can I compete at level 266?
...
But even among rich players the difference can be apparent at times. Isoril was 4125 a couple of days ago, and [Link] has sold their buildings - I guess in reasonable fear they were pretty vulnerable in these conditions.

==========
SOLUTIONS
==========


The best solution would be, of course, to stop selling levels, introducing instead more uniquely sold gear, undroppable items, resurrect potions, expendable slot drop protection etc. I can offer tons of ideas about what to sell instead of levels. But let's be realistic, this will not happen. I'll even leave it out of the poll.

My second solution is to separate clans on the level-buying basis: clans, who have levels bought among their members, and clans who don't. Clans of those different types would have PvP protection from each other, like regular members. Once you buy levels, you can not join non-payers clan, and are automatically kicked out if you were in one. But I can foresee a lot of complaints from paying players, so...

My third solution is to introduce different clan levels/grades based on highest level of their members. PvP restrictions lifted only inside same clan level. Grades could be powers of 2 times 20 (lowest clan founder lvl requirement) [G1=20, G2=40, G3=80, G4=160, G5=320, G6=640 etc.], or a more sensible scale for upper-levels (every couple hundred levels after lvl 320, doubled every thousand). Buildings level restrictions may apply, as well as crafting level restrictions, so there's incentive to always aim higher.

If either second or third solution is implemented though, players who have already paid for their levels should be given ample time and admin attention to reassign their levels to other characters if they want (all or parts of them), and to prepare new chars if needed, so, say, 1 month?

...

Objections, additions? Please vote. And leave comments, especially if you are a level-buyer!
Last edited by kollex on Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ayc
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by ayc »

I see your point,lvl 20 can create a clan,lvl 10+ joins,etc..
and when they attempt on building or grinding anywhere,lvls 500+ 1000+ etc destroy them,and ruin clan feature for low lvls.
Looking forward for suggestions.if it's good and fair,we'll consider it :)
Alts:
DeathWish (dwarf)
Storm (archer)
Mysterious (mage)
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kollex
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by kollex »

ayc wrote:Looking forward for suggestions.if it's good and fair,we'll consider it
My whole "SOLUTIONS" section is suggestions. All 3 of them bad and/or unfair?
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Leone
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by Leone »

Great post. It made me stop and think.

I'm not sure the current game map is big enough to accommodate the two tier clan system you propose. Maybe better(in an ideal world) to offer two FT games running side by side. One for those who have the option to buy levels and the other for those who are prepared to grind their levels. I don't realistically think this will happen but hey.

Don't forget that Matt needs to earn a living out of all this. There is that lurking in the background.
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kollex
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by kollex »

Why do you think there isn't enough space on clan maps? Look at them, they are 70% free now.
More importantly, maps can be added at any time. It's especially easy for clan maps, 'cause they don't contain many objects )

Sure, creator has to make money, that's why I've excluded the 'ideal [for players] solution' from the poll. But two other options are viable in my opinion WITH level-buying system. I think it's even better for creator now that there is such a player, as Isoril, who can dominate anyone in current conditions. But if the clan grades were added, he'd be in a grade of his own and not able to reduce game experience to others, be they high-level level-buyers, or regular players. Level-oriented clan grading system solves it all, save a couple of vloodthirsty exceptions, who'd be disappointed they can not bully everybody.
Top clans would still be top, just not meddling in bottom-feeders' business. :)
Asmodeous
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by Asmodeous »

So is the idea of your grades system to take an average of all the clansmen in that clan and slap a grade on the clan depending on what the result is?
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kollex
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by kollex »

No, not the average, but the top level char. So everyone will choose a clan depending on their level.
Moonraker
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by Moonraker »

Buying levels have been a sore topic for some time....Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no going backkk.......The only reasonable solution is. A second server where level buying is not allowed... I have played many games where there were servers that were pvp but other that was no pvp and so on...... So really it is up to the developer.. I for one would welcome a chance to start again with the. Many changes that have been implimented. Make the new server limitied PvP and a lot of special items available for sale to raise cash instead of buying levels..... Of course the origional server can be maintained as is.
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kollex
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Re: a BIG CONTROVERSY post of SEPARATION

Post by kollex »

Moonraker wrote:.Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no going backkk
I disagaree completely.
There are solutions and I've just given 2 of them.
An in the same time, creating a second server will be completely wrong for several reasons:
1. There are players on this one, who are invested in their chars, e.g. I have a lvl153 archer, lvl100 mage, lvl81 dwarf and several other characters. I'm not sure I will be thrilled to repeat their leveling process on other server.
2. If all the non-level-buying players will flock to the free server, this will become pretty empty. I don't think a pack of high-;eve; players will last for too long without new meat. And so income from this server will die out completely.
3. Even if (2) does not happen (completely, because it will happen by some degree for sure), it will be harder for develooper to support 2 different server, which means fewer and slower improvemets for either of those. And maintaining the current server with no updates will be considered as a spit in the face by players-who-paid.
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