Dex working like str front mages

[madmaniacal1]

It sounds like someone is trying to nerf mages to the point that a high (5k+) mage can be killed by lower lvls in other classes. When these requests are done comparing same lvl accounts, then they'll make sense. Otherwise, would say to get to the same lvl as the mage, then fight him.

[haha2u]

It sounds like someone is trying to nerf mages to the point that a high (5k+) mage can be killed by lower lvls in other classes. When these requests are done comparing same lvl accounts, then they'll make sense. Otherwise, would say to get to the same lvl as the mage, then fight him.

I understand what your saying but we all know you can't Nerf the mage, come on now... just the simple fact they can heal themselves and deal damage with the same skill (mana) without spending in-game gold already gives them a perk and at a high lvl forget about it. The mana resistants is ok but all that did was make for a longer battle. The outcome is usually still the same (mage winning). I'm more then happy to give up a lost cause mana resistance for something that will actually make a difference. I've been playing ft and games alike for a long time and I test every beta update released with hopes this will eventually be addressed. I've offered to test with Gms and/or admins to help find a better balance but let's be honest, most players that use in-app purchases choose the mage class.. I'll leave it at that

[cotne7]

Also ranged classes can use fast potst and stun...and easey run mages can't run

[Khmer]

It sounds like someone is trying to nerf mages to the point that a high (5k+) mage can be killed by lower lvls in other classes. When these requests are done comparing same lvl accounts, then they'll make sense. Otherwise, would say to get to the same lvl as the mage, then fight him.

Nerf mages... ... because they're so hard done by, dwarves must be extremely sympathetic...get off your high horse! How's attempting to balance character classes a bad thing, I mean, unless you're a self absorbed mage!

[madmaniacal1]

It sounds like someone is trying to nerf mages to the point that a high (5k+) mage can be killed by lower lvls in other classes. When these requests are done comparing same lvl accounts, then they'll make sense. Otherwise, would say to get to the same lvl as the mage, then fight him.

Nerf mages... ... because they're so hard done by, dwarves must be extremely sympathetic...get off your high horse! How's attempting to balance character classes a bad thing, I mean, unless you're a self absorbed mage!

Don't get me wrong. I dislike when players try to Nerf any class in order to get an advantage against a higher lvl player.
Also, I agree COMPLETELY that dwarves get the short end where pvp is concerned. Their only benefit is resistance to mages, which hardly qualifies as a good pvp skill. Perhaps if that resistance also drained the mana, or stunned an attacker... Hmmm... Stun shield? Lol. May have to suggest that one. An attacker is stunned if they attack. THAT has potential.

[Arashiko]

I like the idea of a stun shield.
Also a shield of reflection, a hit inflicts retaliatory damage on the attacker

[MadMikael]

Some good ideas here, all of them.

I think the biggest discrepancy is this:
Mages mana increases exponentially as you level -which applies to both attack and defense simultaneously (as in healing or armor spells)
All other classes increase linearly on attack and defense, and almost separately (STR boosts attack, but only a small hp boost; ARM boosts hp but is otherwise useless against mages, and DEX does give defense to magic, but not much)

It's nearly impossible to balance exponential growth to linear growth.

So really, the whole formula system needs a re-work from the ground up IMO.

But... that's no small thing.
You change every class, and then you have the whole game complaining....

So... possible solutions? How do you change this stuff without making changes that everyone hates?
(Well, no matter what is done, some will be unhappy and complain).

Well, I was thinking about the mage specifically - the mage is both an attacker and a defender...
What if we were to split the mage into 2 subclasses... basically, the attacker and the defender?
A lot of details would need to be worked out, and some spells would be added maybe...
But basically, if you're an offensive mage, your healing/armor spells are weaker, and defensive mages would get an attack spell nerf
All sorts of RPGs throughout history have used multiple mage classes....

Ok, but if we did that... how to implement it without a huge commotion?

Well, let's think along the lines of a common theme in other games - evolution.
So, you start out as this generic mage.... once you reach a certain level (to be discussed), you have 3 options
go see trainer A to become an offensive mage, gain offensive boosts, lose some defensive capabilities
go see trainer B to become a defensive/support mage, gain defensive/support boosts, lose some offensive capabilities
don't do either, stay generic, and don't be excessively good at either...

Now what I'm proposing here is not a nerf at all - a nerf takes away from the game; I'm thinking of adding another dimension to it
Of course, what I forgot to mention, is that such evolution would be available to all classes - a specialist decision
We'd all need to hammer out the details, but as it stands, in current PvP, I think you can be "great against mages, or great against others", so we could do something like that, or something different....

So... at this said level, you can choose a specialist class, or not...
How to encourage the choice?
Well, specialists should have tempting boosts to make you want to choose them...
And, specialists should have a strong advantage against the class(es) they're targeted for, weak against certain classes...
And all specialists should be stronger than a generic class...

A *basic* example (I'm not saying this is what we should do), but when you become a specialist, maybe, all your stat points are doubled...
yeah, I'd pick that
But really, where the most important changes are, are in the formula that pertain to specialists...
make all exponential or all linear growth, and balancing should be much easier
oh, a late thought - specialists should get an xp bonus while grinding too - another reason to pick one, you level up slightly faster

This leads to further questions down the line - can you change your specialization, can you see what specialization other players have (and how? by name color, a letter in their name, or a set of skins?)...

Anyway, nothing nerfed, new content, and hopefully if this is planned right before it is ever implemented, it should be balanced
Let me know your thoughts/ideas

[Ryaca]

I like these ideas from Madmikael. I have played many rpg's that have had different mage/spellcaster classes. Normally, in my experience, attack mages, sorceresses, and wizards cannot heal. That is usually reserved for priests, paladins, and clerics.

[madmaniacal1]

+1 MadMikael. Perhaps a dwarf set to attack could FINALLY get decent pvp skills. This could even be expanded to change skill affinity for attack and defense specialists. I'm not suggesting huge changes. Maybe a 0.25 change to skills that pertain to attack/siege, while losing 0.25 to the ones that pertain to build/craft/fishing.

[Humble_M]

As someone who avoids PvP and just likes to grind, quest, and socialize (not always that order), I like the idea of a class specialization. I'd most likely stay neutral. Since offensive/defensive specializations get a (potential) stat bonus, then neutral should get something as well. Not a stat bonus, but bonus to the various trades, based on existing player affinity, would be ideal. For example, mages already have higher affinity for fishing. So, add chance to fish double items, decreased time, or higher level items (within 250 levels above current level).

Again, just thinking outside the box...